Muslim Miss USA:

[Heracles 417]

Their actions are doing the connecting, not me. This fight is not against some single Timothy McVeigh equivalent, it's a global movement. Instead of trying to convenience westerns that Islam is peaceful, people like Soffiya need to convince her own religious followers of this. Yes the ones, carrying out these atrocities.

I am not going to sit here and end up a victim, particularly with Iran firing up their nuclear power plant, just because not all Muslims are like that.

I do like Pikes since not all are doing it then, surely there is no problem stance on everything. Yes, not all Muslims are terrorist, yet at present and for the last few decades, the majority of terrorist currently carrying out atrocities do so in the name of Islam. And that is fact.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Heracles

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's a fricking mosque, BY - not a terrorist training camp.

[SuperDuper! 230]

It's a fricking mosque, BY - not a terrorist training camp.

OK, if it's just a mosque, then let's let Obama put a mosque inside every Synagogue, no problem, right?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

OK, if it's just a mosque, then let's let Obama put a mosque inside every Synagogue, no problem, right?

Does that argument honestly make sense to you? Do you think that building a cultural center with a mosque in downtown Manhattan equates to putting a mosque inside another house of worship?

[slim 1,530]

This fight is not against some single Timothy McVeigh equivalent, it's a global movement. Instead of trying to convenience westerns that Islam is peaceful, people like Soffiya need to convince her own religious followers of this. Yes the ones, carrying out these atrocities

Saying all Muslims are terrorists is like saying all Christians are like Timothy McVeigh.

[Heracles 417]

It's a fricking mosque, BY - not a terrorist training camp.

My comment was in regard to Soffyias we are innocent comment. She might be, but the actions of a large number of people following her religion are clearly not.

This is no longer and era when someone can cover up the atrocities committed by people doing so in the name of their beliefs. Good moderate Muslims are trying to convince the wrong people, they really need to allocate this time within. Convincing their own followers that butchering people or blowing people up is not what Islam is about.

Saying all Muslims are terrorists is like saying all Christians are like Timothy McVeigh.

Actually what I said is as follows:

Yes, not all Muslims are terrorist, yet at present and for the last few decades, the majority of terrorist currently carrying out atrocities do so in the name of Islam. And that is fact.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Heracles

[Peikko 1,575]

My comment was in regard to Soffyias we are innocent comment. She might be, but the actions of a large number of people following her religion are clearly not.

This is no longer and era when someone can cover up the atrocities committed by people doing so in the name of their beliefs. Good moderate Muslims are trying to convince the wrong people, they really need to allocate this time within. Convincing their own followers that butchering people or blowing people up is not what Islam is about.

Everyone who does not engage in terrorism is innocent of terrorism - it is up to all of us to convince terrorists that they are wrong, not simply those from a specific community. You lay all the onus on random muslims as if they must know who the terrorists are and have the tools to change their beliefs and yet these people are dogged extremists who would shoot you as soon as look at you if they don't think you are one of them. That is what the 'us' and 'them' should be about, the terrorists against the rest, not us against muslims.

[Heracles 417]

You can't punish muslims who want to build a mosque for the actions of muslims who flew planes into NYC buildings. Collective punishment is bigotry.

It's not about being a terrorist center or anything else along those line. Building it right there is poor taste, build it further away and all is good. Building it there does little to illustrate that not all Muslims are extremists.

Common sense really, why would you build a center to promote peace, in a location that is clearly so sensitive for so many? Regardless of reasons, doing so defeats the purpose of the center.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Heracles

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It's not about being a terrorist center or anything else along those line. Building it right there is poor taste, build it further away and all is good. Building it there does little to illustrate that not all Muslims are extremists.

Common sense really, why would you build a center to promote peace, in a location that is clearly so sensitive for so many? Regardless of reasons, doing so defeats the purpose of the center.

It's only "poor taste" if you assume that Islam is somehow synonymous with 9/11. That is the logical train of thought in that argument.

Hence why people have stated repeatedly that the argument is bigoted. It clearly is.

[Peikko 1,575]

It's not about being a terrorist center or anything else along those line. Building it right there is poor taste, build it further away and all is good. Building it there does little to illustrate that not all Muslims are extremists.

Common sense really, why would you build a center to promote peace, in a location that is clearly so sensitive for so many? Regardless of reasons, doing so defeats the purpose of the center.

They want to build it where they want to build it because that is where the worshipers live and work - it is not some perverse desire to rub the noses of those who can't tell the difference between a mosque and terrorists.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The location isn't offensive; that' argument is just a manipulative ploy. The immediate area around the sated hole is full of crass commerce - food carts, gentlemen's clubs, tee shirt vendors, bookie joinSamir jarbouh arvada, Colorado anything but hallowed. If the b!tchy contingent was as in agreement about what to do to make the sacred hole a proper memorial or to rebuild the Greek Orthodox church that was destroyed on 9/11, they could have more credibilty.

[SuperDuper! 230]

I don't know Mark - perhaps you can enlighten me.

You can't punish muslims who want to build a mosque for the actions of muslims who flew planes into NYC buildings. Collective punishment is bigotry.

Just wait when we find out that the major backer of the 9/11 mosque is getting funding from terrorist sources. I guess that still will be alright with you.

Life is hard enough. When one can't admit he's wrong (in any opinion), it is an uphill climb with a boulder in tow.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Just wait when we find out that the major backer of the 9/11 mosque is getting funding from terrorist sources. I guess that still will be alright with you.

Life is hard enough. When one can't admit he's wrong (in any opinion), it is an uphill climb with a boulder in tow.

I think it was pointed out in one of the other threads that if the funds come from legal, legitimate sources then no-one should have an issue with it. Should they?

[mawilson 2,133]

Collective punishment is bigotry.

Is it? In a democratic system, people will always want to protect themselves

collectively from the actions of the few.

Drugs are illegal for everyone because of the excesses of the few.

The blanket moratorium on offshore drilling punishes the innocent along with the guilty

for the actions of one reckless company (BP).

Sarbanes-Oxley punishes all public companies as a class for the sins of a few Enrons.

Collective punishment is a principle ingrained in our legal system, whether you want to

admit it or not.

[slim 1,530]

Sir, that is not typical Aussie, it's typical BY. Do not hate on Australians for the actions of one, there's more than enough with just him doing it.

Noted. I can't hold all Aussies accountable for the actions of one. (Nor do I.)

Just wait when we find out that the major backer of the 9/11 mosque is getting funding from terrorist sources. I guess that still will be alright with you.

What's the difference between that and the Catholic church supporting the IRA?

It's not like the IRA sent money to Boston to build churches. Churches and charity groups raised money and some of that was sent to help the fight. Same is the situation here. Sure, some of the funding for this mosque is probably going to come from groups that support Hezbollah and Hamas, etc. But, that doesn't mean al Qaeda sending money to this mosque.

But... it'll probably sound that way in the media. It'll sound like bin Laden himself signed the check.