What do you believe about Muslims and Islam?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

My initial post was poorly written, so I've added a bit of clarity below:

"It is not the stance of a studied Catholic that Muslims worship a different God than Christians...or that only Christians will reach Heaven. You are correct though, of course, that we believe in the Trinity, the divinity of Christ, and Christ's sacrfice on the Cross.

However, while I was attending a Protestant university, during a comparative religion class, I was surprised that they did teach that Muslims did not worship the same God a Christians...which was shocking, to say the least."

Blessings, B

Not so shocking, really. I've taught comparative religion and had students and professors rigorously argue with me that the God of Muslims and Jews is not the same as the Christian God. Not all Christians accept the Trinity either.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Not so shocking, really. I've taught comparative religion and had students and professors rigorously argue with me that the God of Muslims and Jews is not the same as the Christian God. Not all Christians accept the Trinity either.

it is not uncommon to hear the same christians stubbornly insist though that their God IS the same God as that of Abraham and his jewish descendants. outside of the minority of messianic jews/sects that embrace jesus, belief in the trinity is au contraire the majority of jewish sects. they want no part of any trinity talk. buuut, in the case of those heathen moooslims, it's all VERY different!

[Atencio 43]

Thank you. I have a Ph.D in Islamic law and culture,

Do you really? Impressive. I got as far as a dual Master Degree and just wanted to throw up at the thought of trying to earn a Ph.D.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Thank you. I have a Ph.D in Islamic law and culture, and worked in human rights advocacy in the Middle East for more than 20 years. I have great familiarity with sharia law, fiqh law, the Quran and ME history. I will return as soon as I can to address your examples. Thank you for your honesty.

Impressive! But why do you need to "return"? With those credentials I would think you could answer immediately? Just sayin.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Do you really? Impressive. I got as far as a dual Master Degree and just wanted to throw up at the thought of trying to earn a Ph.D.

Thx! I know what you mean, but I needed it to advance in my work, and I had the resources to support me while I did it.

Impressive! But why do you need to "return"? With those credentials I would think you could answer immediately? Just sayin.

I'm away from the house and back on the small screen of my iPhone where short posts are my norm. Short posts would not do the subject matter justice.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I'm away from the house and back on the small screen of my iPhone where short posts are my norm. Short posts would not do the subject matter justice.

[^_^ 5,021]

Thank you. I have a Ph.D in Islamic law and culture, and worked in human rights advocacy in the Middle East for more than 20 years. I have great familiarity with sharia law, fiqh law, the Quran and ME history. I will return as soon as I can to address your examples. Thank you for your honesty.

You will undoubtedly 'address' them, but you will do so in an academic manner using your theoretical knowledge of Islam. What I don't think you can adequately address (on the topics of Ayodhya and Mathura) are the cultural factors in play that go into how Hindu and Muslims on the ground (not in theory, but in real life) interact.

Frankly, I'm not sure that the theology even matters. What matters is how people - Muslim and otherwise - actually conduct themselves.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You will undoubtedly 'address' them, but you will do so in an academic manner using your theoretical knowledge of Islam. What I don't think you can adequately address (on the topics of Ayodhya and Mathura) are the cultural factors in play that go into how Hindu and Muslims on the ground (not in theory, but in real life) interact.

Frankly, I'm not sure that the theology even matters. What matters is how people - Muslim and otherwise - actually conduct themselves.

I am certainly able to go beyond theoretical knowledge or academics. but, as you hinted, it is always about the people, not always about the faith.

[evli1966 88]

Soff

You asked about some things I read in the other thread ( I think)

Yemeni Judge Hamoud Al-Hitar has also attacked the Islamic intellectual basis of terrorism citing proofs "in theological dialogues that challenge and then correct the wayward beliefs" of terrorists or would-be terrorists.^[55]

Numerous fatwā (rulings) condemning terrorism and suicide bombing as haram have been published by Islamic scholars worldwide, one of the most extensive being the 600-page ruling by Sheikh Tahir-ul-Qadri,(I like this guy sorry he had to say this about people of his own faith) whose fatwa condemned them as kufr.^[56] On 2 March 2010, Qadri's fatwa was an "absolute" condemnation of terrorism without "any excuses or pretexts." He said that "Terrorism is terrorism, violence is violence and it has no place in Islamic teaching and no justification can be provided for it, or any kind of excuses or ifs or buts." Qadri said his fatwa, which declares terrorists and suicide bombers to be unbelievers, goes further than any previous denunciation. ^[57] Iranian Ayatollah Ozma Seyyed Yousef Sanei (I do not like this guy he seems to be part of the problem) issued a fatwa (ruling) that suicide attacks against civilians are legitimate only in the context of war.^[58] The ruling did not say whether other types of attacks against civilians are justified outside of the context of war, nor whether jihad is included in Sanei's definition of war.

It is from Wiki but gives me more searches to follow and read on.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I have read the sharia laws, nothing about peace and tolerance.

I know for a fact that you have not read the Sharia laws. I don't mean this as a slur because I'm sure that you believe you have read them, but I am very comfortable attesting that you have not. How do I know? Well, for starters, there is no single compilation or agreement among Muslim scholars as to what constitutes Sharia. Most non-Muslims and too many Muslims don't even understand what sharia is, what it's source is, and the variety of law that has grown out of it. Additionally, there the divisions between Sunni, Shi'a and Salafi that matter. In fact, much of the focus in the nebulous "Muslim world" is on Shia dominated populations, i.e. Iran, Iraq.

This is a huge and complex subject, so I will deal with the basics first, then work up to the accusation that there is nothing about peace and tolerance in it. I will be speaking in terms of Sunni theology.

Sharia, the path to the water, is a combination of the 10% of the Quran that is legislative mandate, and the validated sayings and approved practices of the Prophet Muhammad (the Sunnah). The reason why it is not an absolute, concrete set of rules is that the emphasis and weight given to any given set of principles vary from place to place and across time. Also, Sharia is a human attempt to discern divine law, and that is something no human does well.

The resulting determinations derived by specialists who are licensed to decide what is proper practice, judge cases and issue legal opinions (fatwas). The results of their discernment via a prescribed methodology is referred to as Fiqh. In Sunni jurisprudence, there are four primary schools of Islamic law, the Maliki, Hanafi, Shafi'i and Hanbali, and other peripheral schools which have individual jurisdiction in different parts of the world. Their interpretations of Sharia vary enough so that their standard determinations disagree about 25%, and that can mean a great difference in the precedents they rely on.

Fiqh has been compiled for several hundred years. Some determinations mirror the Quran so closely that they are considered to be immutable. Others are challenged and amended because the determinations of humans are not immutable. Fiqh is commonly confused with Sharia, but they are not the same, nor are they interchangeable.

You were not specific about what you read that raised such a hostility in you re Sharia, but, from reading the negative press, I'm going to guess that it involved the hudud laws in general, and stoning as a hadd punishment, in particular. Rajm or stoning in Muslim countries is a hot topic lately.

The connection between stoning and Islam actually began when the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) applied Talmudic law to assert a punishment on a Jewish couple. However, the use of stoning by the Prophet was entered into reluctantly. There are many stories of how, when a person would approach him to make a confession of fornication, he would turn away from them three times, allowing them a chance to go away without punishment. Only those who insisted that they receive his attention and comment were stoned.

After the revelation of Surah Nur, it was understood that flogging was the prescribed punishment after conviction, requiring 4 witnesses to penetration.

Quran 24:1-5In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. A sura that we have sent down, and we have decreed as law. We have revealed in it clear revelations, that you may take heed. The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out God's law, if you truly believe in God and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty. The adulterer will end up marrying an adulteress or a disbeliever, and the adulteress will end up marrying an adulterer or an disbeliever. This is prohibited for the believers. Those who accuse married women of adultery, then fail to produce four witnesses, you shall whip them eighty lashes, and do not accept any testimony from them; they are wicked. If they repent afterwards and reform, then GOD is Forgiver, Merciful. ,

Yet, because the Prophet employed stoning for a time, it has managed to remain for some, a punishment classified as part of the Sunnah.

Stoning predates Islam on the Arabian peninsula. It is prescribed in the Bible several times, but the Quran is silent about it.

. . . He who blasphemes the Name of The Lord shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him; the sojourner as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death. (Leviticus 24:13,16 RSV)

If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods ... You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from The Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. (Deuteronomy 13:6,10 RSV)

While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day ... And The Lord said to Moses, "The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp. (Numbers 15:32,35 RSV)

continued . . .

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Soff

You asked about some things I read in the other thread ( I think)

It is from Wiki but gives me more searches to follow and read on.

I'm proud of you for taking the time to seek out answers to your own concerns! Even wikipedia can be right sometimes if you catch it before the Muslim haters find it and change everything posted about Islam from positive to negative.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Danni, also mentioned a few mosques being built on top of other places of worship. whats that all about?

[^_^ 5,021]

Danni, also mentioned a few mosques being built on top of other places of worship. whats that all about?

In the Indian subcontinent, that was how the Muslim conquerors displayed their supremacy over the conquered.

[evli1966 88]

Danni, also mentioned a few mosques being built on top of other places of worship. whats that all about?

Good question

In the Indian subcontinent, that was how the Muslim conquerors displayed their supremacy over the conquered.

Really? yeowza

Is this the source for your questions?

Is the information accurate regarding the mosques that were built?

[^_^ 5,021]

Really? yeowza

People like to hide behind religion when they do bad things. It's not that uncommon as behaviors go. I've even heard of Muslims in Dubai who will yell Allahu Akbar while they rape Filipina nurses. Does it mean Islam really condones that? Of course not.