What do you believe about Muslims and Islam?

[evli1966 88]

Muslims are people

Muslim religeon it is said is a peaceful religeon...so I would think they are correct

Muslim religeon has extremists who resort to terror attacks on innocent people including other muslims this is fact

If Muslim organizations ether give or recieve funding from these same extremist; I would say those that do are part of the extremist problem whether they belive it or not.

I have not heard of any (there may be some)Muslim Organizations speak out or renounce the extremists and their actions when they do commit terrorist acts so they are part of the problem whether they believe it or not

This same above goes for any religeous, civil or political organization on this globe.

Muslims are people good and bad...if the good want to be seperated from the bad then the bad must be rejected and renounced.

Muslims are people and I wouldn't know if you are or are not unless you told me so and you can expect from me and my family respect and decency unless you prove that you do not deserve it.

Soff I hope that stated well and no insult was intended if it feels that way.

Edited August 21, 2010 by evli1966

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Ever wonder what was behind terrorism in the Middle East beyond using Islam as a justification and as recruiting tool? It's refreshing that you got into tribalism which goes along with clan identification and family ties which is something I've never really understood about the region.

Why is it that the Middle East hasn't had the kind of changes we've seen in the former Communist bloc, the democritization of the Latin America or the rise of the East Asiam economies and moves their toward more democracy? The Middle East hasn't had widespread economic growth outside of oil/natural gas at least enough to keep up a rising population that has no outlet for political change in most of the countries? I'm not putting all the blame on Islam as some the rulers are really nominally Muslim and have some brutual methods to stay in power. Islam isn't anti-democracy as Indonesia/Malaysia are democracies but there's also the fear that the people will go for groups like Hamas which may come off as extreme at the outset but the difficulties of ruling forces them to make compromises to get things done.

There needs to some more economic diversification in the region which would decentralize power and better the lives of people beyond the spritual support of Islam.

Tribalism is probably the oldest and most common identifier among the world's populations. It even has significance in the US and Europe. I have used it to create alliances in South America, the Middle East and when working among Native Americans in the US. The Book of Matthew in the Bible opens with the tribal lineage of Jesus to establish him as a descendent of Abraham. Tribalism linked with traditional expectations on behavior and belief, survives modernity all over the world.

Islam has little to do with the economics of the area. Even its restrictions on high interest have not been the cause of stunted growth. And, you're right, Islam is not anti-democratic. Arabs and Jews in the area have been entrepreneurial for centuries, but tribalism tends to keep wealth concentrated within upper class families through nepotism and marriage between cousins. There is growing investment in ME countries and no lack of money in the Middle East, but, most of it doesn't reach the masses, who remain among the least literate in the world.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I doubt my opinions would be excessively Hostile but some might.

ON the other hand my opinion would not be all "sweetness" either.

I haven't asked for only sweetness and light for this thread. It's not like we don't have any idea what you think from your prior postings. When you feel comfortable, please post them; as many or as few as you like.

[nab 74]

i am addressing some issues brought up but deleting names from those quotes because these issues are ones that many people believe

QUOTE: The only gripe I have with it is the non equal treatment of women, but it's part of what I mean by hardcore...

if they are truly "hardcore" followers they would be treating their women with respect. it's sad to say that the bad ones get the focus rather than the millions who do the right thing. it leads to myths like this.

i have been a 'victim' (hate that word) of the USA system and believe me, if you think women are treated nicely here you obviously arent a woman who has gone up against the good ol' boys.

To Danno i only want to say I'm sorry for your feelings toward muslims and hope that GOD turns your heart.

{snipped}

my MIL talked to me for almost an hour the other day about islam. too bad i don't speak arabic.

oh that is tooo funny!

My cousin Sarah converted to Islam when she married a man who is Muslim (from Turkey). She doesn't wear a headscarf, but she is observant and she and her husband (and her two boys) all seem to be very what I would call normal Americans. Some of the people in my family were pretty freaked out when she announced she was marrying someone who was Muslim, but everyone calmed down when they met him and saw how much he loved Sarah, and how his religion wasn't the only thing about him. He's a great husband and father, and Sarah's father is really proud to have him as a son-in-law. They've been together 10 years and I've been really happy to see how my family has welcomed him in and realized that Sarah can be Muslim and still be herself.

this was so beautiful and i appreciate you sharing this. people DO get majorly freaked out and it's so hurtful when friends and family shun you after you've made a decision to revert. i was blessed to meet my husband after i reverted and so it's cute when his friends would ask him "oh you made her muslim?" and he would say "no, ALLAH made her muslim".

I have a very good friend that is Muslim. She is by no means a strict follower. I find it interesting in an educational sort of way when she describes her religion. When she talks about Islam I can see the love she has for it and also no hatred for other religions.

i too like learning about other religions... i like gathering knowledge in general so i understand your 'in an educational way' comment.

thank you for giving your observations... it made my heart so happy!

QUOTE: {snippped} I believe that there are plenty of extremists of Islam, just like there are every other religion out there. I believe some people take the 'extremes' a bit too seriously in Islam though, more than other religions do at this time.

A great bumper sticker for 'modern times' is "Not all Muslims are Terrorists, but most Terrorists are Muslims." which fits pretty true for the majority of the acts of terrorism we've seen in the name of religion in the past 30-40 years... A real shame really that a small minority of a religious group get all of the attention, when most are good people.

and last but not least, like every other religion in the world, they all are strong in their actual 'faith' even though they may not follow it to a 'T.'

i disagree with so much in this quote...

there are people who take things to extreme in EVERY religion (as well as other things in life people take to extreme). doesnt make it right, just stating it is fact. many of the wars fought over the centuries were fought over religion. that is extreme. many of those were christian crusades.

in my personal experience i have seen MANY more christian extremists; perhaps that is because i live in a christian majority nation. many groups have popped up from extremists in various religions, though i've only personally seen the christian ones. i've read about muslim ones, and mormon ones, and even what people call 'cult' ones (though i'm sure the people in it wouldnt consider it a cult). people take things to extreme, but to label a religion because of a few... well, i dont think christians would like to be viewed by the world on the actions of their local christian-based KKK group but that's exactly what people do to muslims. knowing the background of the KKK and the Taliban, they are so similar it's crazy.

it saddens me to see people truly believe that only muslims are terrorists... perhaps if the media stopped saying "muslim" when someone does soemthing stupid, or began saying "jewish/christian/mormon/etc" and labeled everyone perhaps there could be better understanding but it's like there is this media campaign to make sure when a muslim does a crime he is labeled.

and you are so wrong about ALL being strong in their faith... just like every other religion there are some who are strong followers and some who are not. just one example: drinking is not allowed but some do... to me that is not a strong follower.

--------

and to the OP... a couple websites i use and enjoy are searchtruth.com and islamicfinder.org

[^_^ 5,021]

I read some really interesting opinions about Muslims and Islam on this board, and I'm wondering where people get their information from.

My introduction to Islam and Muslims was after we moved to India. I had a good friend named Hasibullah and I had no idea he was Muslim. I just knew his name was Hasibullah. I think I was 11 at the time. One day another friend of ours tells me that Hasibullah won't eat pork so it would be hilarious to trick him. I asked him why he didn't eat pork and he said he's not sure. Anyway, a few days later my mom gave me sausages for lunch from the only place outside the Muslim part of the city that sold pork sausages. I told Hasib it was chicken. He tried it, didn't like it. Then we start laughing, tell him it was pork. He looked scared. The next day he told us he asked his dad if he did a bad thing and his dad told him that Allah doesn't mind if you do it by mistake. Of course, I didn't even know what Allah was. I asked, apparently Allah is God. Why don't you just call it God or any of the various Hindi words for God? Umm.. because.

Thus began a learning process.

Fast forward a few years and the controversy over the Babri Mosque is building up. Suddenly, everyone hates Muslims. This time I'm older. The debate entered the public discourse when I was 15. People stopped saying hi and hello. It was always Jai Sri Ram (victory to lord ram), a Hindu right-wing creation. Hindu right-wingers who called themselves kar sevaks used to go from house to house handing out orange flags. Put it up on the flat roof and let them know you're Hindu. You know, for when the time comes. No one explicitly said what "the time" meant but people understood. We had an orange flag on our house too but my dad refused to go along with the Jai Sri Ram silliness. I went along with it because I was kind of apathetic. One of the guys in my neighborhood, he is in SoCal now working for a major hi tech company, was a 1st or 2nd year in college back then and was radicalized. He used to come over to our house and talk smack about how Muslims are taking over every evening. My sister is a few years younger than I am and she paid attention to every word he said. My dad used to try to argue with him but then my mom told him not to because he was close to the kar sevaks.

Anyway - the Mosque was demolished when I was 17 by kar sevaks. The governement of India promised to protect the structure but failed. The demolitiion was broadcast live on TV and yet that evening the Prime Minister comes on TV and claims his forces were caught by surprise.

In retrospect, letting that Mosque go down was an act of political brilliance. They removed the entire reason for existence of the hindu right-wingers.

So yeah - that's a small part of where I learned about islam. From people who hated it.

[slim 1,525]

that's a small part of where I learned about islam. From people who hated it.

Studying the opposition of something often indicates it's true strengths.

[alienlovechild 75]

Tribalism is probably the oldest and most common identifier among the world's populations. It even has significance in the US and Europe.

Islam has little to do with the economics of the area. Even its restrictions on high interest have not been the cause of stunted growth. tribalism tends to keep wealth concentrated within upper class families through nepotism and marriage between cousins. There is growing investment in ME countries and no lack of money in the Middle East, but, most of it doesn't reach the masses, who remain among the least literate in the world.

I don't know what my tribe or clan is but I suppose the Scots in the family were part of some clan years ago but in any case it doesn't factor into my life.

Islam may not have role in economics but economics should have an influence on Islam. Most societies tend to become more secuular when they become more advanced in economic development. That's what happened in Europe but it didn't happen in the U.S. The difference was that European churches got support from the state and vice versa. When the people soured on the governments they also had a beef with the churches.

Per capita incomes are fairly low in the Middle East in nations with large populations and don't think anything that's going to change that much outside of the petroleum sector which hasn't helped much outside of the Persian Gulf.

[nab 74]

{snipped}

I asked, apparently Allah is God. Why don't you just call it God or any of the various Hindi words for God? Umm.. because.

{snipped}

i just dont know what to say to the rest of your post so i wont say anything... but for this i will answer to because for some reason people think we have a 'different' God becasue we say Allah but our God is the same as yours; He is the God of Abraham, Adam, Jesus, and all others (peace be upon them all).

"Allah" is used because we only have one God.... same belief as christians and jewish people. He is The God, there is only one. The word "God" can be distorted and misunderstood and used in other ways...

God can be pluralized = gods

God can have other words added = godfather, godmother, etc

but using "Allah" there is no misunderstanding, no distortion = there is only ONE GOD.

[nab 74]

something i've always wondered.... why do people have an issue with us saying "Allah" but no one has problem with "Dios" or "Dieu" or "Gott" or "Deus" or any other language ... is it because it's arabic?

[slim 1,525]

something i've always wondered.... why do people have an issue with us saying "Allah" but no one has problem with "Dios" or "Dieu" or "Gott" or "Deus" or any other language ... is it because it's arabic?

Because terrorists shout "Allahuakbar!!!" on their YouTube videos.

[slim 1,525]

for some reason people think we have a 'different' God becasue we say Allah but our God is the same as yours; He is the God of Abraham, Adam, Jesus, and all others (peace be upon them all).

I think the vast majority of Americans believe Allah is not the same dude as Jehova or whatever other name folks place on their higher power.

To me, in "the big 3" the dude is the same guy he's just called different things. The underlying principal in all three is "there is one god." How can that one god be a different guy just because someone calls him something else?

[LaL 418]

What criticisms of Islam do you have?

I have no criticism of Islam. I have lots of criticism for Muslims.

What criticism of Islam do you have?

+1 sheesh.

[justashooter 430]

we say Allah but our God is the same as yours; He is the God of Abraham, Adam, Jesus, and all others (peace be upon them all).

"Allah" is used because we only have one God.... same belief as christians and jewish people. He is The God, there is only one.

a studied christian would disagree. a christian accepts a tri-parite divinity that is connected to man by a sanctified sacrifice (christ). a christian acknowledges that there is no other path into a relationship with god than by admission of the power of the sacrifice of christ, and thereby the identity of christ as god himself, personified. a christian would see allah as a false god put forth by a false prophet.

a studied muslim would not accept the sacrifice or divinity of christ, rather, relying on an alternate path towards a relationship with allah, based on the 5 pillars, the first of which describes allah as the only god, and muhamed as his supreme prophet. a muslim believes that christianity is a perverted form of earlier teachings that provide some of the basis of islam.

interestingly enough, muslims do share a concept for heaven and hell with christians, as well as a concept for bodily ressurection. these concepts are not part of the teachings of the traditional desert religions, and were taken into the koran from christian teaching, which was widespread by the time that muhamed dictated the koran. much of the koran is based on judaism, which had been forced on the desert peoples from time to time throughout the preceeding milenia.

the five pillars, shahadah (recognition of allah and muhamed), salah (prayer rituals), sawm (rammadan related fasting), zakat (tithing for the purpose of maintinance of the poor and supporting the spread of islam), and hajj (pilgrimage ritual) are all close copies of traditional judaism in a slightly modified form, and were useful in the establishment of a superculture within the desert triangle that could be used to organise the nomadic peoples who traditionally inhabited it.

like the hebrew state that preceeded islam in supremacy, the islamic state has a parallel system of governments, secular and religious, and in both cases the religious governemnt was more powerful than the secular. jews have since adopted an exclusively secular government, while muslims have vascilated between secular and religious government, varying with location and time.

unfortunately, the existence of a powerful religious government within many islamic states has fostered the development and continuance of an unspoken "sixth pillar", often described as "lesser jihad", that is warfare against non-muslim peoples. a more pure jihad exists in the form of warfare against the failings of self. perhaps islamics would be wise to drop the concept of the former, and increase adherence to the latter.

so, you see, we are not all "children of the same god".

the attempt to create the illusion that we are is driven partly by the agenda of islam to conquer (convert) members of all other faiths into islam. saying that conversion will not change core beliefs or the nature of an individual's relationship with god reduces the resistance to conversion. it is also driven by an agenda to reduce incitement to wrath by the majority of Americans (98% of which are not muslim) in the interest of keeping good relationships with oil producing economies, many of which are dominated my "islamic" governments.

[justashooter 430]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Islam

all the criticism of islam you can argue with from a non- "hate site".

[zqt3344 21]

Good post, thanks!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Islam

all the criticism of islam you can argue with from a non- "hate site".