Phoenix Muslim Organization says

[justashooter 430]

http://tucsoncitizen.com/godblogging/2010/08/17/phoenix-muslim-organization-says-ground-zero-mosque-should-not-be-built/

Phoenix Muslim Organization says “Ground Zero Mosque” should not be built

by reneeschaferhorton on Aug. 17, 2010, under Bad Religion

Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser, president and founder of the Phoenix-based American Islamic Forum for Democracy wants to clarify a few things for President Barack Obama about the fracas over the 13-story Muslim cultural center planned for construction a few blocks from Ground Zero.

The cultural center, which will include a mosque but which proponents say will not be primarily a worship facility, has become the center of a firestorm surrounding religious freedom, the American ideal, and good taste. Obama walked smack into the middle of that storm last Friday when he told a Muslim organization that, “This is America,” and thus all people have the right to practice their religion, including the “right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances.”

Obama did not – and would not – say if he supported building the center, which makes me want to whack him upside the head like his mother surely would if she were alive. “Barry,” she’d say, “say that, yes, there is religious freedom in the U.S., but there’s something that trumps that and that is good taste.” Alas, she is not here to tell him, so Jassar did in an open letter.

Jassar, who calls himself a “devout Muslim,” released this statement this weekend:

As an American Muslim whose family fled persecution in Syria and as someone who has stood in the face of some resistance to the building of many of our houses of worship in the U.S., I fully understand the value of standing for religious freedom in America. But President Obama’s statement about the Ground Zero mosque at last night’s White House Iftar dinner is the latest example of political correctness gone awry.

Jassar goes on to say Obama has “fundamentally misunderstood the stakes in this discussion and the sentiments of the American people. Instead, you have focused on the very issue that the Islamist propagandists wish you to– the narrative that Americans somehow need lectures about Islam, Muslims, and religious freedom.”

As I said before, when Muslims talk – be they moderate Muslims like Jassar and others who are trying to drag Islam into the 21st century, or fundamentalist Islamists who say they will kill and kill and kill until they drive the U.S. out of the Middle East (so they, the fundamentalists, can do what they will to those who disagree with them) – we need to listen.

This isn’t about playing nice with the bully on the playground. This is about honoring the deaths of the thousands who lost their lives on 9/11 at the hands of Muslim radicals who would do the same act again without a moment’s hesitation and who believe the world will not be whole until everyone follows Islam the way they say Islam should be followed. It is, Jassar said, about what is right.

Mr. President this is not about religious freedom. It is about the importance of the World Trade Center site to the psyche of the American People. It is about a blatant attack on our sovereignty by people whose ideology ultimately demands the elimination of our way of life. While Imam Faisal Rauf may not share their violent tendencies he does seem to share a belief that Islamic structures are a political statement and even Ground Zero should be looked upon through the lens of political Islam and not a solely American one. … ‘Park 51’, ‘The Cordoba House’ or whatever they are calling it today should not be built, not because it is not their right to do it – but because it is not right to do it.” Mr. President, your involvement in this issue is divisive not uniting. Your follow-up stating that ‘you will not speak to the wisdom of the construction of that mosque and center’ indicates a passive-aggressive meddling on your part that only marginalizes those Muslim and non-Muslim voices against it while pretending to understand both sides of the debate.

Are the majority of Muslims terrorist lunatics? No; the majority are just regular people who want to live their lives and practice their religion the way they’d like. But according to an imam who used to live in Tucson, at least 1 million of the world’s 1 billion Muslims believe the garbage spouted by Al-Qaeda and the Taliban – that the U.S. and everyone in it is Satan and must be conquered by Islam. And you know what? That crazy one percent has the will and ability to slaughter anyone who disagrees with them and laugh about it afterwards.

More from Jassar’s open letter to Obama:

As a Muslim desperate to reform his faith, your remarks take us backwards from the day that my faith will come into modernity. I do not stand to eliminate Imam Rauf’s religious freedom; I stand to make sure that my children’s religious freedom will be determined by the liberty guaranteed in the American Constitution and not by clerics or leaders who are apologists for shar’iah law and will tell me what religious freedom is.

Jassar is not the only Muslim speaking out against the Ground Zero community center, which gives more cache to his opinion, in my humble opinion. The Dakota Voice has this interesting piece from two Muslims in the Middle East saying the center is a really bad idea. Best part is this, from Abdul Rahman Al-Rashid, a general manager of a TV station based in Dubai:

… I do not think that the majority of Muslims want to build a symbol or a worship place that tomorrow might become a place about which the terrorists and their Muslim followers boast, and which will become a shrine for Islam haters whose aim is to turn the public opinion against Islam. This is what has started to happen now; they claim that there is a mosque being built over the corpses of 3,000 killed US citizens, who were buried alive by people chanting God is great, which is the same call that will be heard from the mosque.

Well, duh. Apparently the outcry has become such that the governor of New York is seeking a meeting with the imam and the developer behind the idea. According to this story, he wants to talk to them about moving the center further away from Ground Zero. I hope they listen to him. This isn’t about religious freedom – we have mosques, we have churches, we have synagogues. To me, at least, it is about good taste. If the 9/11 attackers had been Hindu, no one would want a Hindu temple built near Ground Zero. If they’d been Jewish, no one would want a synagogue there. Let’s have a little respect for the dead and a little common sense.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

He has it round the wrong way.

For Park 51 to not become (potentially) a point of pride for terrorists and terrorist sympathisers overseas, the bigoted nutjobs screaming about "burning the flag", "slapping victims in the face" shouldn't have turned it into a media circus of ever-increasing hyperbole and emotionalism. They are the ones who have done this.

America is a big country, everyone who lives in the country has a stake in 9/11. And you know what... muslims live there too. Muslims died in 9/11. Noone has a monopoly on the national tragedy and people should stop trying to pretend otherwise. Frankly, it's offensive.

[Peikko 1,575]

Bad taste? Not right? What nonsense, and it continues mercilessly.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

interesting

[evli1966 88]

He has it round the wrong way.

For Park 51 to not become (potentially) a point of pride for terrorists and terrorist sympathisers overseas, the bigoted nutjobs screaming about "burning the flag", "slapping victims in the face" shouldn't have turned it into a media circus of ever-increasing hyperbole and emotionalism. They are the ones who have done this.

America is a big country, everyone who lives in the country has a stake in 9/11. And you know what... muslims live there too. Muslims died in 9/11. Noone has a monopoly on the national tragedy and people should stop trying to pretend otherwise. Frankly, it's offensive.

Yes it is offensive that you ignore a person of the islamic faith and their support of the mosque not being built.

No one said there weren't muslims that died on 9/11 but is said it was a terrorist attack by islamic extremists.

Bad taste? Not right? What nonsense, and it continues mercilessly.

So you discredit a muslim speaking out in his view?

interesting

Very Interesting that if there are Muslims against this project that they get bashed and ridiculed; How American is that?

[Peikko 1,575]

Yes it is offensive that you ignore a person of the islamic faith and their support of the mosque not being built.

No one said there weren't muslims that died on 9/11 but is said it was a terrorist attack by islamic extremists.

So you discredit a muslim speaking out in his view?

By discredit do you mean that just because this person is muslim I must agree with their opinion? How silly would that be?

Edited August 20, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[evli1966 88]

By discredit do you mean that just because this person is muslim I must agree with their opinion? How silly would that be?

Disagreeing is your right.

But your statement seemed to me that you are stereo typing this person the same as you would any other person against the mosque.

The typical argument is that people against it are bigots or worse.

Not trying to put more meaning into your post but that is how read to me along wiht other posts you have.

[Peikko 1,575]

Disagreeing is your right.

But your statement seemed to me that you are stereo typing this person the same as you would any other person against the mosque.

The typical argument is that people against it are bigots or worse.

Not trying to put more meaning into your post but that is how read to me along wiht other posts you have.

There is no stereotyping involved, the 'it's insensitive' argument is quite simply bigoted therefore anyone who uses it to justify their objection is promoting a bigoted point of view, no matter what community they hail from. Or perhaps you are going to be brave and try to elucidate how preventing a muslim community from upgrading their mosque to accommodate a larger congregation, or whatever their rationale was for building the new mosque to replace the old one, is insensitive to the victims of 9/11, some of whom were infact muslims themselves that does not involve equating musilms with terrorists. I don't automatically think 'terrorist' when I see a mosque or a muslim (if they are being obliging and wearing 'muslim clothing' in order for me to identify themselves) do you?

Edited August 20, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Yes it is offensive that you ignore a person of the islamic faith and their support of the mosque not being built.

No one said there weren't muslims that died on 9/11 but is said it was a terrorist attack by islamic extremists.

So you discredit a muslim speaking out in his view?

I'm a Muslim speaking out, as are the ones in charge of the project. You dismiss us.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

There is no stereotyping involved, the 'it's insensitive' argument is quite simply bigoted therefore anyone who uses it to justify their objection is promoting a bigoted point of view, no matter what community they hail from. Or perhaps you are going to be brave and try to elucidate how preventing a muslim community from upgrading their mosque to accommodate a larger congregation, or whatever their rationale was for building the new mosque to replace the old one, is insensitive to the victims of 9/11, some of whom were infact muslims themselves that does not involve equating musilms with terrorists. I don't automatically think 'terrorist' when I see a mosque or a muslim (if they are being obliging and wearing 'muslim clothing' in order for me to identify themselves) do you?

Freedom of religion, not present in many Islamic countries, cannot possibly begin to imagine to exist...without freedom of speech, also not present in many Islamic countries.

It really doesn't matter if someone is insensitive or bigoted, they have a right to speech and to express that speech. There are no thought police and it matters not a whit what you think when you see a Muslim, nor what I think.

And yes, we are making a huge mistake to give the issue this much "ink" so to speak. The place is private property, they can build what they want and you, nor anyone else has to like it. You, nor anyone else has to attend it, pay for it, etc. The idea that the taxpayers of New York should apy for and substitute some other property is wholly ridiculous and is probably the ultimate intent of the Muslims. then they can sell off the pricey Manhattan real estate and get the taxpayers to pay for their Mosque. That would be better? And since WHEN can a state be giving property to a religious organzation?

If anyone was even here when the Nazi protest occurred in Skokie, IL, one thing should be remembered. The Nazi's applied for marching permits in several cities with large populations of Jews. They were simply ignored or lost. Ooops...it happens. Nothing came of it. How do you "appeal" something that is never denied? Skokie denied the permit, and did so in writing. Big mistake. They took it all the way to the supreme court and won and had their "march". The march was a non-event. The months and years leading up to it did more to promote nazi sentiment than anything else ever in the history of our country. Just as this mosque is a non-event, it is nothing at all if ignored.

[justashooter 430]

I'm a Muslim speaking out,

we already know this. duly noted.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Freedom of religion, not present in many Islamic countries, cannot possibly begin to imagine to exist...without freedom of speech, also not present in many Islamic countries.

It really doesn't matter if someone is insensitive or bigoted, they have a right to speech and to express that speech. There are no thought police and it matters not a whit what you think when you see a Muslim, nor what I think.

And yes, we are making a huge mistake to give the issue this much "ink" so to speak. The place is private property, they can build what they want and you, nor anyone else has to like it. You, nor anyone else has to attend it, pay for it, etc. The idea that the taxpayers of New York should apy for and substitute some other property is wholly ridiculous and is probably the ultimate intent of the Muslims. then they can sell off the pricey Manhattan real estate and get the taxpayers to pay for their Mosque. That would be better? And since WHEN can a state be giving property to a religious organzation?

If anyone was even here when the Nazi protest occurred in Skokie, IL, one thing should be remembered. The Nazi's applied for marching permits in several cities with large populations of Jews. They were simply ignored or lost. Ooops...it happens. Nothing came of it. How do you "appeal" something that is never denied? Skokie denied the permit, and did so in writing. Big mistake. They took it all the way to the supreme court and won and had their "march". The march was a non-event. The months and years leading up to it did more to promote nazi sentiment than anything else ever in the history of our country. Just as this mosque is a non-event, it is nothing at all if ignored.

what is your basis for the bolded part above? seems like an awfully big, expensive gamble, especially when early on they had fox news commentators and the like falling all over themselves saying what a great idea the cordoba house is.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

JAS, you should be careful when endorsing Muslim "rebels" because they usually turn out to be lying self-promoters who set up shop post 9/11 making a very lucrative living on the lecture circuit by appeasing Muslim/Islam haters. Muslims know what posers they are, but the Christian Right laps them up and fills their coffers to over flowing.

[evli1966 88]

There is no stereotyping involved, the 'it's insensitive' argument is quite simply bigoted therefore anyone who uses it to justify their objection is promoting a bigoted point of view, no matter what community they hail from. Or perhaps you are going to be brave and try to elucidate (big word do not use on unedumacted peoples like me)how preventing a muslim community from upgrading their mosque to accommodate a larger congregation, or whatever their rationale was for building the new mosque to replace the old one, is insensitive to the victims of 9/11, some of whom were infact muslims themselves that does not involve equating musilms with terrorists. I don't automatically think 'terrorist' when I see a mosque or a muslim (if they are being obliging and wearing 'muslim clothing' in order for me to identify themselves) do you?

They are upgarding th current one or making the current one bigger. They are building a new center with a larger mosque in it.

To insinuate what i might see in a muslim on the street based on their clothes is insulting and idiotic; not all muslims dress the same and not all muslims were the muslim clothing. What I do see in your speech is your blind ignorance and ignoring of the issue of where the money for this comes from. Do you deny where it comes from and who is supporting this internationally (not nationally) that is were yours and most argur,emts like yours fails epically. Why freeze money of known terroist organizations and supporters in the USA and yet allow it to flow freely for this project.

If you want to build the mosque do so with clean money or prove that it is clean.

I'm a Muslim speaking out, as are the ones in charge of the project. You dismiss us.

Sodiyya I know this and I have not dismissed your arguement nor the right for you to practice your religeon.

The arguement in case from my perspective and in order of importance 1. Where is the money coming from 2. why build it here and so close when another already exists closer and in the same area 3. Why a completion date of 9/11

[Peikko 1,575]

Freedom of religion, not present in many Islamic countries, cannot possibly begin to imagine to exist...without freedom of speech, also not present in many Islamic countries.

It really doesn't matter if someone is insensitive or bigoted, they have a right to speech and to express that speech. There are no thought police and it matters not a whit what you think when you see a Muslim, nor what I think.

And yes, we are making a huge mistake to give the issue this much "ink" so to speak. The place is private property, they can build what they want and you, nor anyone else has to like it. You, nor anyone else has to attend it, pay for it, etc. The idea that the taxpayers of New York should apy for and substitute some other property is wholly ridiculous and is probably the ultimate intent of the Muslims. then they can sell off the pricey Manhattan real estate and get the taxpayers to pay for their Mosque. That would be better? And since WHEN can a state be giving property to a religious organzation?

If anyone was even here when the Nazi protest occurred in Skokie, IL, one thing should be remembered. The Nazi's applied for marching permits in several cities with large populations of Jews. They were simply ignored or lost. Ooops...it happens. Nothing came of it. How do you "appeal" something that is never denied? Skokie denied the permit, and did so in writing. Big mistake. They took it all the way to the supreme court and won and had their "march". The march was a non-event. The months and years leading up to it did more to promote nazi sentiment than anything else ever in the history of our country. Just as this mosque is a non-event, it is nothing at all if ignored.

You chose to quote what I posted, and yet your post has nothing to do with anything I posted, except some absurd rubbish about bigotry being merely 'freedom of expression' as if that justifies it. It doesn't.

Yes, there is certainly too much media airtime and political grandstanding going on on the back of this 'non event' but you can hardly be holding me responsible for that, can you?

What you are trying to do, as you are always trying to do, is to promote a blatantly right wing agenda under the guise of disinterest, as if the voicing of bigoted opinions and attempts to elicit hatred against muslims is of no consequence at all. Your agenda is only too transparent. It matters not one whit what religious freedoms are denied in other countries, it only matters if protections afforded under the American constitution are being denied to a section of the population due to their religious beliefs. In this instance, muslims are being told they can't enlarge/replace or supplement their current mosque as part of a cultural muslim center because doing it is 'insensitive' to the survivors and families of the victims of 9/11and yet this insensitivity does not exist unless you look at a mosque and automatically conjour up pictures of terrorists. That's coercion of the worst sort and should not be tolerated by anyone who values freedom.

As to your conspiracy theory that the mosque is merely some ploy to increase property values, gee, where were you when you came up with that little gem, on the crapper?