Freedom of speech

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Didn't you go to Iraq to do that ?

You assume that the USA is politically homogeneous and I am the lone outsider wanting to change things. In fact the majority of Americans voted to change things and I will become allied with them. How can an immigrant who allies himself with the majority political party in America be an unacceptable outsider who should be told to go home ?

If I came here and tried to change things back to white supremacy and no votes for blacks, you would applaud my arrival.

Every immigrant should learn this : For every grisly right winger telling you to get out and to leave everything as it is for perpetuity, there are two Americans who are working for constant change for the better. They are the true patriots. No country is perfect and every country needs constant striving to change for the better.

Unfortunately the kinder Americans are quiet on these forums for reasons that I can only guess at - but they are still the majority.

You can't exchange one form of intolerance for another.

It's one thing for everyone to have equal rights under the constitution (which everyone did from day one.. just some were ignorant of that). It's completely different to take away free thought and expression though because you disagree with it. You're basically saying your opinion and ideas are superior and therefore everyone else needs to shut up.

While no one constitutionally can take away the rights of other individuals, it's there "right" at the same time to say how they really feel about it. They don't have to like the way things are, just as you don't have to like the fact they can say how they really feel about it. It doesn't mean either one of you get to change anything about the other. That's the key here and that's what the constitution is about. Equal rights for all. An equal 'voice' for all is part of that. Whether that voice is hateful in nature or not. It's the right of that individual or group of people to put that opinion out there.

You may have in your head all the good intentions in the world, but we all know where that road leads at the end of the day.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Every immigrant should learn this : For every grisly right winger telling you to get out and to leave everything as it is for perpetuity, there are two Americans who are working for constant change for the better. They are the true patriots. No country is perfect and every country needs constant striving to change for the better.

Unfortunately the kinder Americans are quiet on these forums for reasons that I can only guess at - but they are still the majority.

We're too busy working to effect actual change in this country to spend time replying to those who merely shake their fists impotently at the change they resist.

[Captain Oates 911]

So what you're saying is you're a Fascist? You want to come in and impose your views and make people act the way you want them to? Speak in public the way you want them to. Pathetic.

The KKK whether you like them or not, have the right to march around and say "white power, down with blacks" or whatever other idiotic things they might say. Just as the Black Panthers have the right to do the opposite and fight for their cause. Just becaue you don't "like" it, doesn't mean that you have the right to silence them.

I note your support for the KKK's rights.

How can coming to a country and having one vote be described as 'imposing my views' ?

How can you describe someone who wants to bring the US's laws on hate speech in line with all other developed nations be described as fascist ?

Fascists are pro hate speech as it is THAT which crushes opposition for the victims to speak at all.

What greater example of suppressing free speech is there than an American hearing an outsider and then telling them to go home so that their voice cannot be heard ?

THAT is suppression of free expression and ideas

[Gemmie 142]

I mean look at the last guy who tried to detonate a car bomb in NYC. He stuck around, got his citizenship, did the right thing, then tries to blow up Times Square.....

And look at all of the people that are granted citizenship and don't try to blow up NY. This is a result of the media showing that person who is a NAAAATERALIZED CITIZEN doing something that bad. Just like in the UK, where they show people attempting to commit acts of terror that come from other countries and have became UK citizens. They fail to mention that there are politicians that are born to immigrants that are aiming for positive change, or the millions of people becoming UK citizens and setting up businesses to give back to the country.

Naturalized people are paying US taxes and will be forever even if they move back to their home country. So if they're putting money into it, why not put ideas in as well? If anything, they can give perspectives from a very different point of view. Once you've lived 20+ years in another country, you can really notice the things that might work better or worse in the new country you're living in. When I made the comment to the group of Americans that a national health service might not be as bad as they think, I meant that as in 'I've had one for 22 years and have benefited greatly from it. I've also came here and seen many Americans who suffer because of the system'.

Especially when you have an outsider ilke your friend wanting to come in and change things already.... It's one thing to live here for awhile and see something you don't like and want to change it. It's completely different to come from the outside with the intent on getting citizenship to change things.

But you just said you're against people even living here for a while, seeing something they don't like, and trying to change it.

Furthermore, in her case, I don't think so. She has family in New Orleans and visits them often, so she has seen first-hand what she wants to change. She also has a degree in history where she specialized in Black American History, and she's moving to Africa for 4 months to help the refugees before embarking on her political journey in the States. It's not just someone like me who has limited knowledge on the subject saying "I wanna help teh blacks" and coming in. She's dedicating her career to making a change. And yes, things are the way they are already for a reason but it's not always a good reason.

And btw, she's not interested in gaining US citizenship. She wants to work with the people that are on death rowe to help them out in some way or other, but becoming an American is not everyones goal. It seems a lot of people misunderstand that.

[^_^ 5,021]

The voices in my head are telling me this thread is going well and I should leave it alone.

[Captain Oates 911]

We're too busy working to effect actual change in this country to spend time replying to those who merely shake their fists impotently at the change they resist.

The tiny percentage of posters on here who are not from texas and don't have a concealed weapons permit, is so small that I often miss their posts.

Really I think Lincoln should be impeached in absentia for allowing em back in in 1865

Can I say that ?

Edited August 19, 2010 by saywhat

[Gemmie 142]

That's the key here and that's what the constitution is about. Equal rights for all. An equal 'voice' for all is part of that.

Read: But not immigrants that came and naturalized and voted.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Gemmie

[luckytxn 2,264]

Lincoln didn't allow any states back in. He was dead.

Forgot to add also that the states were forced to come back whether they even wanted to or not.

Edited August 19, 2010 by luckytxn

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

The tiny percentage of posters on here who are not from texas and don't have a concealed weapons permit, is so small that I often miss their posts.

Really I think Lincoln should be impeached in absentia for allowing em back in in 1865

Can I say that ?

Hello darling, I missed you.

You can say whatever you like, blue passport or no. I will advise you I am ethnically half-Texan, but I don't like to say that too often.

[BobandXiaomei 14]

The tiny percentage of posters on here who are not from texas and don't have a concealed weapons permit, is so small that I often miss their posts.

Really I think Lincoln should be impeached in absentia for allowing em back in in 1865

Can I say that ?

Texas since the Republic... my post was on page 7.

[Captain Oates 911]

The voices in my head are telling me this thread is going well and I should leave it alone.

I checked out a bird in Colorado Springs once and she thought I was terrorist too !

oooo outsiders ! scary scary people... where is ol' betsy ? Get it down off the mantelpiece granpaw

I tell you these supremacists wouldn't last two minutes trying to live in England or any other country on their own. I am not talking company compounds or military bases but in the community as a man apart - a newcomer.

The sad thing is that they don't even know their constitution, their graven image. They don't know how it has changed and why it has changed and those changes like civil rights etc - they deplore them. If there is an enemy within - it is them.

This country isn't being held back by terrorism - it is being held back by these reactionary stick-in-the- muds who won't allow society to develop for the benefit of all.

They don't even like the word 'all' as they see that as a communist word.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I note your support for the KKK's rights.

How can coming to a country and having one vote be described as 'imposing my views' ?

How can you describe someone who wants to bring the US's laws on hate speech in line with all other developed nations be described as fascist ?

Fascists are pro hate speech as it is THAT which crushes opposition for the victims to speak at all.

What greater example of suppressing free speech is there than an American hearing an outsider and then telling them to go home so that their voice cannot be heard ?

THAT is suppression of free expression and ideas

Now I wonder if you're being at all serious in this thread or just trolling?

I also noted the rights of the Black Panthers, but of course you ignored that part.

I also ackknowledge the rights La Raza, environmentalists, PETA, right-wing nuts, left-wing nuts, etc. to state their views openly and honestly. I suppose all that matters though is the fact I dared to mention the KKK and their right as the same of others.

In your censorship world though, I suppose only people who share in your viewpoints have a voice.

Just because you don't like the opinion of what some might consider a 'hate group;' which most of those listed above pretty much are, doesn't mean you get to silence them.

[Captain Oates 911]

Hello darling, I missed you.

You can say whatever you like, blue passport or no. I will advise you I am ethnically half-Texan, but I don't like to say that too often.

That was a very risky statement you just made but I respect your right to say it. Do you a hoof as one foot ?

You must be descended from a cow because the rest of the Texans just want to deport all outsiders and their minds have become like ingrowing toenails

Actually it can't be all Texans because Buddy Holly was superb and he seemed quite mild mannered and gentle and didn't want to bayonet anyone's baby. He came over as almost English.

[BobandXiaomei 14]

That was a very risky statement you just made but I respect your right to say it. Do you a hoof as one foot ?

You must be descended from a cow because the rest of the Texans just want to deport all outsiders and their minds have become like ingrowing toenails

Actually it can't be all Texans because Buddy Holly was superb and he seemed quite mild mannered and gentle and didn't want to bayonet anyone's baby. He came over as almost English.

Not true.

[Captain Oates 911]

Now I wonder if you're being at all serious in this thread or just trolling?

I also noted the rights of the Black Panthers, but of course you ignored that part.

I also ackknowledge the rights La Raza, environmentalists, PETA, right-wing nuts, left-wing nuts, etc. to state their views openly and honestly. I suppose all that matters though is the fact I dared to mention the KKK and their right as the same of others.

In your censorship world though, I suppose only people who share in your viewpoints have a voice.

Just because you don't like the opinion of what some might consider a 'hate group;' which most of those listed above pretty much are, doesn't mean you get to silence them.

So where do you stand on the mosque ?