Freedom of speech

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

spot on Charles. The 'other' countries put their safety ahead of some theoretical freedom which in reality is freedom for criminals to commit street robbery without being filmed.

This encapsulates the whole discussion and highlights the difference in mindset between the two countries

Now would you rather walk along a back steet in Ilkley or Milwaukee at midnight tonight ?

An American can only be faithful to the constitution if he remains alive.

tough call.....in ilkley i'd be lost as i have no clue where it is - in milwaukee everyone would be puking from the beer that made that place famous.

[slim 1,525]

freedom for criminals to commit street robbery without being filmed.

This encapsulates the whole discussion and highlights the difference in mindset between the two countries

Right. It's much better to get murdered as long as it's caught on tape. Whereas here, we have the option of being armed when we walk down any street.

Now would you rather walk along a back steet in Ilkley or Milwaukee at midnight tonight ?

An American can only be faithful to the constitution if he remains alive.

For the record, I wouldn't want to walk down the street in either s#!thole but if I had to choose, I'd choose the one where I had the right to defend myself by being armed.

despite media rhetoric, MOST streets in America are safe to walk down at night.

Less than 1% of 1% are "unsafe." Apparently, that's still way too high.

[Captain Oates 911]

tough call.....in ilkley i'd be lost as i have no clue where it is - in milwaukee everyone would be puking from the beer that made that place famous.

I got lost there at 1pm on a sunny day and I was scared. There were fleets of hoods in long old cars following me up and down the streets of the projects.

Been to New Orleans and Atlanta and Mobile and New York and Miami etc etc and I can tell you that Ilkley is the place to walk home. The last robbery there was by King Canute son of Sweyn Forkbeard in 1020.

You would love ilkley - I will be there in about 3 weeks. Nipples are natural there too !

http://topnews.ae/content/22545-mothers-backing-breast-campaign-ilkley

[Captain Oates 911]

an American thinks that Ilkley is a shxthole ? That is pure ignorance from someone who lives in a country where passport ownership is 40% and most people could not point to Australia on a map.

..and would prefer to strut down some backstreet all puffed up with his goatee beard and undershirt and gun than be in a safe environment

It really is a different world..

[Heracles 417]

In the US the constitution comes first. In England the rest of the first world 'we the people' come first. How ironic.

[Heracles 417]

spot on Charles. The 'other' countries put their safety ahead of some theoretical freedom which in reality is freedom for criminals to commit street robbery without being filmed.

This encapsulates the whole discussion and highlights the difference in mindset between the two countries

Now would you rather walk along a back steet in Ilkley or Milwaukee at midnight tonight ?

An American can only be faithful to the constitution if he remains alive.

As per the rest of the first world.

I'd rather my family and friends be able to freely move about and without being a victim of crime, than the freedom to be able to scream to a child's face murderer. It's why I have walked numerous cities abroad, between 2 to 5am in the morning during a night out, but would not be caught dead doing the same here. DC has a huge crime problem, yet the only camera you will see are those collecting money for traffic offenses. Apparently people being shot dead weekly, is still not enough to violate their Constitutional rights.

Wow, you really have been brainwashed haven't you? Your home government must be so proud!

Actually, I don't walk down the street at night in fear. Because despite media rhetoric, MOST streets in America are safe to walk down at night.

Reported news of the day are hardly media rhetoric.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

the problem with the anti-hate speech laws in various parts of Europe is people use them to shut down not only someone shouting an insult at a 7 year old (which is a very excessive example and hardly the norm in the US, whatever you might think), but things certain members of religious groups use it to shut down things they don't like such as the Danish cartoons and Jerry Springer: The Opera.

[Captain Oates 911]

As per the rest of the first world.

I'd rather my family and friends be able to freely move about and without being a victim of crime, than the freedom to be able to scream to a child's face murderer. It's why I have walked numerous cities abroad, between 2 to 5am in the morning during a night out, but would not be caught dead doing the same here. DC has a huge crime problem, yet the only camera you will see are those collecting money for traffic offenses. Apparently people being shot dead weekly, is still not enough to violate their Constitutional rights.

In milwaukee on a sunday morning they collect the bodies of the murdered from the side of the freeway

I am afraid the Americans on here have no experience of the world and don't know what we are talking about. Those who go abroad are usually in the military on in company compounds. We had a director from Atlanta visit us in Yorkshire and they lived off McDonald's every meal for 3 weeks as they were so phased by this foreign land.

I am working on the assumption that the Americans who do post on here are unusually right wing in their views and there are huge numbers of educated and gentle and empathetic Americans who simply never post in these forums. Perhaps those Americans don't get involved in foreign brides ? I really don't know why this place is full of the hang em, flog em, shoot em and 'we hate furryners' types..

[luckytxn 2,264]

I asked another poster if he thought that people in Europe (say UK, Germany, France, Sweden)

were people who felt their free speech had been taken away

The fact is they don't and they welcome the curbs on hate speech.

As far as you telling me to get out of the US if I don't like the current law, I have some terrible news for you. I will be a citizen in 3 months and I am going to be politically active with all the many Americans who think like me and are against people who think that hate speech and hateful berating of dead US soldier's families is ok.

Those who like hate speech/racism/violence/xenophobia and are anti immigrant and anti new ideas are dinosaurs and on the way out. They are the skinhead section of American society and use the constitution and pervert it to their cause.

Perhaps they should leave - but who would have them ?

Never said to get out of the country but knew that you would get defensive enough and assume that is what I said. (It is like shooting fish in a barrel) In fact what the thing that is simple is to amend the Constitution. As you said it has been done before a few times.

The last time it was tried to amend that grand document was for the ERA amendment. It was smooth sailing for it too and every state was jumping on that bandwagon to ratify. Corks were popping and parties were everywhere as each state signed on to ratify such a needed amendment.

Then one party pooper lady came along and started writing articles asking what would happen once this became the law of the land. As she wrote one article after another and the taking it the next step and explaining the raminifications then all of a sudden the enthusiasm waned and the support started to fall away. It was amazing that only a few more states were needed to finish the job but all of a sudden no new states were so gung ho and decided to ask their citizens for a referendum on what they wanted. Even woman who were the catalyst for the fight started to wake up and realize the huge blunder they were about to become party to. The deadline loomed and came near and it seemed doomed and even the few partisans still fighting for it asked for more time. It was granted to no avail.

Now we do not really need to have some foreigner come here and explain to us how this grand Constitution is out dated. How the one instrument we all know and love with all our hearts is nowadays not needed except as a tissue paper to wipe your frilly azz with.

Now I do have a passport and have used it extensively. I have traveled all over Europe and Asian and Central and South America and Australia. I have seen all ranges of governments and peoples. I also know for a fact that in all the so called safe countries you mentioned that every city has their slums and areas that few people can enter under threat of crime and even death. I also know that crime is rampant in all these countries. Being European does not make one immune from being victimized. I also never have witnessed racism as I have until I have went to any European country but also in Asian and all parts. Aussie land was especially venomous to any non whites. Made me realize we are not perfect here but we are trying to overcome our differences and that it was due to having this Constitution and the freedom of speech. Also after traipsing all over the world I also realize that we are the most safe country of them all. Most anywhere in this country we can go about and not become victimized. Sure we also have our few slum and bad areas as others.

So now that you are so close to becoming a citizen in name only then please do me a favor and go out and become political and voice your opinion and try to sway others to follow you. I promise to not stifle your speech even though I find it hateful and treasonous and unAmerican. That is what makes us so great here and so many try to flock here because as you said your wonderful country you come from would not allow you to do the same.

[Captain Oates 911]

Never said to get out of the country but knew that you would get defensive enough and assume that is what I said. (It is like shooting fish in a barrel) In fact what the thing that is simple is to amend the Constitution. As you said it has been done before a few times.

The last time it was tried to amend that grand document was for the ERA amendment. It was smooth sailing for it too and every state was jumping on that bandwagon to ratify. Corks were popping and parties were everywhere as each state signed on to ratify such a needed amendment.

Then one party pooper lady came along and started writing articles asking what would happen once this became the law of the land. As she wrote one article after another and the taking it the next step and explaining the raminifications then all of a sudden the enthusiasm waned and the support started to fall away. It was amazing that only a few more states were needed to finish the job but all of a sudden no new states were so gung ho and decided to ask their citizens for a referendum on what they wanted. Even woman who were the catalyst for the fight started to wake up and realize the huge blunder they were about to become party to. The deadline loomed and came near and it seemed doomed and even the few partisans still fighting for it asked for more time. It was granted to no avail.

Now we do not really need to have some foreigner come here and explain to us how this grand Constitution is out dated. How the one instrument we all know and love with all our hearts is nowadays not needed except as a tissue paper to wipe your frilly azz with.

Now I do have a passport and have used it extensively. I have traveled all over Europe and Asian and Central and South America and Australia. I have seen all ranges of governments and peoples. I also know for a fact that in all the so called safe countries you mentioned that every city has their slums and areas that few people can enter under threat of crime and even death. I also know that crime is rampant in all these countries. Being European does not make one immune from being victimized. I also never have witnessed racism as I have until I have went to any European country but also in Asian and all parts. Aussie land was especially venomous to any non whites. Made me realize we are not perfect here but we are trying to overcome our differences and that it was due to having this Constitution and the freedom of speech. Also after traipsing all over the world I also realize that we are the most safe country of them all. Most anywhere in this country we can go about and not become victimized. Sure we also have our few slum and bad areas as others.

So now that you are so close to becoming a citizen in name only then please do me a favor and go out and become political and voice your opinion and try to sway others to follow you. I promise to not stifle your speech even though I find it hateful and treasonous and unAmerican. That is what makes us so great here and so many try to flock here because as you said your wonderful country you come from would not allow you to do the same.

What bunkum..

Treasonable eh ? that charge is enough to shut anyone up and stifle their free speech...

I believe the death sentence is still imposed for treason

That would REALLY shut em up. No need for free speech then.

Texas eh ? figures...

I thought you guys were trying to secede a couple of months ago...now that would be treasonous.. You should think yourself lucky that Lincoln let you back in and now you are lecturing me on the constitution ?

Opposing right wing Americans is not treasonous and it's not anti- American either

I am here to take the US forward along with people who think like me (Your own president for instance ?), and we are not impressed by the idea that only a southern neo con gun toting agenda is patriotic...

Get used to the idea that progressive liberal thought is the future for the USA and people like me will be the majority (already are) and people like you are being consigned to history because hate has had it's day.

Funny how most of the foamers are Texas

[Obama 2012 1,714]

What bunkum..

Treasonable eh ? that charge is enough to shut anyone up and stifle their free speech...

I believe the death sentence is still imposed for treason

That would REALLY shut em up. No need for free speech then.

Texas eh ? figures...

I thought you guys were trying to secede a couple of months ago...now that would be treasonous.. You should think yourself lucky that Lincoln let you back in and now you are lecturing me on the constitution ?

Opposing right wing Americans is not treasonous and it's not anti- American either

I am here to take the US forward along with people who think like me (Your own president for instance ?), and we are not impressed by the idea that only a southern neo con gun toting agenda is patriotic...

Get used to the idea that progressive liberal thought is the future for the USA and people like me will be the majority (already are) and people like you are being consigned to history because hate has had it's day.

Funny how most of the foamers are Texas

Funny how you confirm our opinion of England.

[SMR 368]

This list must really sadden you>>

The National Health Service 1948

The Emancipation of blacks in the US

Votes for women

Votes for people who don't own property

Disabled access ways

The banning of domestic violence

Banning of dog fighting

etc, etc etc it's a gradually emerging kinder world and it's unstoppable and the hatemongers are swimming up stream and will be bitter losers for the rest of their lives.

Heck, Catalonia has just banned bull fighting !

I know there are millions of Americans who deplore changes like this and wish it was 1859 or even 1783. The hate speech supporters are part of this group.

But with the exception of the NHS, all of these things currently exist in the US. So those things do nothing to demonstrate that the US is stuck in 1776. I also didn't say all change was bad. Only that just because things change doesn't mean they are getting better. An obvious fact but one that seems to escape you when you claim that Europe is better than the US because the US espouses certain values that were held in the 18th century. You have to prove those values are bad beyond the simple fact that they are old.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

It's why I have walked numerous cities abroad, between 2 to 5am in the morning during a night out, but would not be caught dead doing the same here. DC has a huge crime problem, yet the only camera you will see are those collecting money for traffic offenses. Apparently people being shot dead weekly, is still not enough to violate their Constitutional rights.

Reported news of the day are hardly media rhetoric.

You must be a chicken. Bawwwwwwwk, bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwk.

[Captain Oates 911]

But with the exception of the NHS, all of these things currently exist in the US. So those things do nothing to demonstrate that the US is stuck in 1776. I also didn't say all change was bad. Only that just because things change doesn't mean they are getting better. An obvious fact but one that seems to escape you when you claim that Europe is better than the US because the US espouses certain values that were held in the 18th century. You have to prove those values are bad beyond the simple fact that they are old.

As you say, apart from the NHS, I list all the GOOD things that have happened in the US through change (forget O I am no fan)

This thread is about changing the law to outlaw race/hate speech

That would be a change - it is a change that would enhance the US internally and in the eyes of the world

Change has been good for the US and it's accelerating

What I am advocating is more of the same beneficial change

All these beneficial changes that I have listed are a divergence from the values of 1787 and show that updating those values is essential to beneficial progress in the USA

[Obama 2012 1,714]

As you say, apart from the NHS, I list all the GOOD things that have happened in the US through change (forget O I am no fan)

This thread is about changing the law to outlaw race/hate speech

That would be a change - it is a change that would enhance the US internally and in the eyes of the world

Change has been good for the US and it's accelerating

What I am advocating is more of the same beneficial change

All these beneficial changes that I have listed are a divergence from the values of 1787 and show that updating those values is essential to beneficial progress in the USA

Beneficial in your opinion.

Also how the rest of the world views us is really irrelevant. Everyone should mind their own damn business and trade with who they want to trade with or not, and shouldn't stick their nose in the business of everyone else. This goes especially for the US as well.