MSNBC anchor: Building Cordoba would be like burning the flag

[chri'stina 190]

I don't think I am a bigot, nor do I support bigots. So I am with you too! I don't oppose the building of the mosque.

I still don't agree that every single person who thinks this issue is a sensitivity issue or that the mosque should be considered being moved is a bigot. So are the Muslims who think that the sensitivity issue is a valid concern bigots? I think some people are just concerned, and while I don't think they need to be, I am not going to call every single person who doesn't support the mosque building a bigot. That's much too broad a generalization. If someone is acting hateful, screaming about it, saying bigoted things, can't accept that Muslims lives in the US, then yes I would call them a bigot. If saying something slightly considered bigoted was grounds for being a bigot, then VJ is full of bigots and it's not just the RWNs.

Edited August 18, 2010 by chri'stina

[Jenn! 918]

Where's the confusion? Let's recap what I said:

1) The "sensitivity", "slap in the face" (and let's not forget "the Islamization of America") arguments against the Cordoba mosque, to name a few, are bigoted in nature.

2) Anyone who uses bigoted arguments (for example, see 1 above) is a bigot.

Just wanted to clarify there in case there is continued confusion. There seems to be a misunderstanding that the argument being put forth is x, y, and z are arguments against the mosque. X is a bigoted argument (but not necessarily Y and Z), therefore everyone against the mosque is a bigot.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Most people who oppose the mosque are bigots. They use Paul's et al argument that it's too close to the sacred hole and insulting to the 9/11 families, but that's just a subtefuge. The bottom line is that a mosque near the sacred hole is deemed a monument because "everybody knows" that Muslims build mosques on sites of victory. If these Muslims built near the site where those other Muslims scored a victory, then that is more brownie points for terror because all Muslims are in cohoots with terrorists.

If all Muslims were not believed to be in cahoots with terrorism, there would be no concern about the location of the mosque near the sacred hole, Muslims would not be insensitive toward the the non-Muslim 9/11 familes (** the Muslim 9/11 families, they don't matter), and everyone would be treated like "normal" Americans.

Not one person opposed to the mosque, wanting it to be moved, can escape the fact that it is opposed because Islam/Muslim = terrorist sympathizer, at best.

[Jenn! 918]

You know when you read a word so much that it doesn't seem like it's spelled right anymore. Today, for me, that word is bigot.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Where's the confusion? Let's recap what I said:

1) The "sensitivity", "slap in the face" (and let's not forget "the Islamization of America") arguments against the Cordoba mosque are bigoted in nature.

2) Anyone who uses bigoted arguments (for example, see 1 above) is a bigot.

Why the need to recap? In post #30 you wrote:

Opposing the Mosque near WTC site is about sensitivity?

Can bigots be "sensitive"?

There is no individual mentioned here at all! therefore one must conclude, (keeping in context of course) That anyone involved in the protest of the Mosque is a Bigot according to you (see above quote). The verbal lube you are using to slide around the subject is quite amusing. You really should tighten your lips when tossing "racist" and "Bigot" in such a knee jerk kinda way.I will now insert a quote from one who was slightly ahead of her time. Carry-on!

"I see a declaration of victory coming soon...can't wait!"

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Most people who oppose the mosque are bigots. They use Paul's et al argument that it's too close to the sacred hole and insulting to the 9/11 families, but that's just a subtefuge. The bottom line is that a mosque near the sacred hole is deemed a monument because "everybody knows" that Muslims build mosques on sites of victory. If these Muslims built near the site where those other Muslims scored a victory, then that is more brownie points for terror because all Muslims are in cohoots with terrorists.

If all Muslims were not believed to be in cahoots with terrorism, there would be no concern about the location of the mosque near the sacred hole, Muslims would not be insensitive toward the the non-Muslim 9/11 familes (** the Muslim 9/11 families, they don't matter), and everyone would be treated like "normal" Americans.

Not one person opposed to the mosque, wanting it to be moved, can escape the fact that it is opposed because Islam/Muslim = terrorist sympathizer, at best.

Come-on Sofiyya. The Sacred hole? If you have a complaint with someone fine but man. If I had a loved one that was never found. well I will let you figure it out. Your turning into the very thing your concerned about. Rise above it!

[Peikko 1,575]

Ok I agree the behavior is bigoted. I still wouldn't label them all as bigots though. I think they would change their minds if more informed which I have tried to do in online conversation with some. These are mostly young, usually nice, 20-something year old girls who don't watch news much. I don't want to write them all off.

Does calling the behaviour bigoted necessarily mean 'writing them off'? No. However, allowing that behaviour a free pass because the person doing it is young and uninformed is wrong because the effect on the people who are at the meat end of the behaviour is the same if the person being bigoted is a gnarly old misanthrope or a nice young teen. Those who espouse these views because they are 'not interested' should not be allowed to harm other people just because they are lazy, that's not acceptable.

Come-on Sofiyya. The Sacred hole? If you have a complaint with someone fine but man. If I had a loved one that was never found. well I will let you figure it out. Your turning into the very thing your concerned about. Rise above it!

I agree, it's not helpful to call ground zero a 'Sacred hole'. It has a perfectly acceptable non emotive name - it would be better to stick with that than allow for unwarranted supposition to creep in by using an applet that could be misconstrued.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

I agree, it's not helpful to call ground zero a 'Sacred hole'. It has a perfectly acceptable non emotive name - it would be better to stick with that than allow for unwarranted supposition to creep in by using an applet that could be misconstrued.

Yep!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why the need to recap? In post #30 you wrote:

Opposing the Mosque near WTC site is about sensitivity?

Can bigots be "sensitive"?

There is no individual mentioned here at all! therefore one must conclude, (keeping in context of course) That anyone involved in the protest of the Mosque is a Bigot according to you (see above quote). The verbal lube you are using to slide around the subject is quite amusing. You really should tighten your lips when tossing "racist" and "Bigot" in such a knee jerk kinda way.I will now insert a quote from one who was slightly ahead of her time. Carry-on!

"I see a declaration of victory coming soon...can't wait!"

Then my subsequent post clarifying the position should clear things up for you.

Carry on.

I don't think I am a bigot, nor do I support bigots. So I am with you too! I don't oppose the building of the mosque.

I still don't agree that every single person who thinks this issue is a sensitivity issue or that the mosque should be considered being moved is a bigot. So are the Muslims who think that the sensitivity issue is a valid concern bigots? I think some people are just concerned, and while I don't think they need to be, I am not going to call every single person who doesn't support the mosque building a bigot. That's much too broad a generalization. If someone is acting hateful, screaming about it, saying bigoted things, can't accept that Muslims lives in the US, then yes I would call them a bigot. If saying something slightly considered bigoted was grounds for being a bigot, then VJ is full of bigots and it's not just the RWNs.

On the issue of the mosque they ARE bigots though. That doesn't mean they are bigoted on every issue, just this one.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Just wanted to clarify there in case there is continued confusion. There seems to be a misunderstanding that the argument being put forth is x, y, and z are arguments against the mosque. X is a bigoted argument (but not necessarily Y and Z), therefore everyone against the mosque is a bigot.

What are the Y and Z arguments against the Mosque?

[Peikko 1,575]

What are the Y and Z arguments against the Mosque?

I can't think of one argument being put forward as to why the mosque can't be built in the vicinity of ground zero that isn't bigoted. All sensitivity on this issue is based around the supposition that it is normal to relate mosques to terrorists. It isn't.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Then my subsequent post clarifying the position should clear things up for you.

Carry on.

On the issue of the mosque they ARE bigots though. That doesn't mean they are bigoted on every issue, just this one.

Subsequent? Dont you mean wigglin? Its alright we know what your about.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I can't think of one argument being put forward as to why the mosque can't be built in the vicinity of ground zero that isn't bigoted. All sensitivity on this issue is based around the supposition that it is normal to relate mosques with terrorists. It isn't.

The only one I can think of might be law-enforcement because of vandalism of the property and harassment of the visitors - but I don't really buy that argument in light of the fact that there is a huge police presence in Manhattan.

Muslims who are against it for "sensitivity reasons" are essentially capitulating in a repressive act against their own freedom.

On the bolded - absolutely.

Subsequent? Dont you mean wigglin? Its alright we know what your about.

Well - the question is out there. What arguments against the mosque can you personally think of that are NOT bigoted?

Edited August 18, 2010 by Its a MADHOUSE

[Jenn! 918]

In my example, Y and Z were also supposed to be bigoted arguments, but ones that weren't explicitly stated. I was trying to clarify Marc's confusion. I can see I was wildly successful.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Is the WTC site on a national memorial list? Just curious.

I generally think that national memorials should be either secular or open to every possible faith. Obviously the mosque that is planned is not at the site, is on private property, and I believe if it is blocked that would set a very dangerous precedent for the nation as a whole.