MSNBC anchor: Building Cordoba would be like burning the flag

[^_^ 5,021]

Not really Paul. The argument that is being advanced, whether it is explicitly said or not is that the mosque is unwelcome because it is somehow synonymous with the terrorist acts of 9/11.

It is not. It amounts to an exercise in collective punishment against people who had.nothing to do with the terrorist attacks.

it wouldn't be rational to protest a catholic church being erected near a school because of the abuse scandal. it is bigotry. there is no other interpretation.

The next thing they'll want is to remove all Muslims from a 5 block radius of Ground Zero.

[chri'stina 190]

I don't think every person who opposes this mosque is a bigot. I think who the person is who is opposing it makes the difference. I know of a lot of acquaintances, past school mates, of mine who are saying they oppose the building of the mosque on ground zero. Of those people I would only think of a small amount as possible bigots, depending on their track record. Others I would think of as uninformed and lazy because many assume it's being built directly on top of ground zero and don't look up anything for themselves. They follow along with whatever they hear being shouted about. But I know some of them well and I would not describe them as bigots overall, just uninformed. But some people around here(VJ) do act like bigots. The blindly following along happens on the left about a lot too IMO, people seem to love joining along with outrage and protests for their side's views, while completely insulting the other side instead of finding people from the other side who are willing to discuss it in a rational manner. I think some people enjoy being irrational and nasty.

Edited August 18, 2010 by chri'stina

[BobandXiaomei 14]

equating abortion clinic bombings of "murderers" and the killing of 3,000 innocent people is rather silly.

Not as silly as your comment. Abortions are legal within the United States according to the Supreme Court. So those clinic deaths were also murdered and were so ruled by the American court system. Those convicted are serving time as murderers.

You don't like it? Get the Constitution changed.

You don't like Muslims living here and worshipping? Get the Constitution changed.

Edited August 18, 2010 by BobandXiaomei

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't think every person who opposes this mosque is a bigot. I think who the person is who is opposing it makes the difference. I know of a lot of acquaintances, past school mates, of mine who are saying they oppose the building of the mosque on ground zero. Of those people I would only think of a small amount as possible bigots, depending on their track record. Others I would think of as uninformed and lazy because many assume it's being built directly on top of ground zero and don't look up anything for themselves. They follow along with whatever they hear being shouted about. But I know some of them well and I would not describe them as bigots overall, just uninformed. But some people around here(VJ) do act like bigots. The blindly following along happens on the left about a lot too IMO, people seem to love joining along with outrage and protests for their side's views, while completely insulting the other side instead of finding people from the other side who are willing to discuss it in a rational manner. I think some people enjoy being irrational and nasty.

The mosque is not on ground zero. That's a fallacy.

Being uninformed isn't incompatible with bigotry. Bigots tend to be uniformed. The only difference is how vicious their rhetoric is and how loudly they shout it.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Not as silly as your comment. Abortions are legal within the United States according to the Supreme Court. So those clinic deaths were also murdered and were so ruled by the American court system. Those convicted are serving time as murderers.

You don't like it? Get the Constitution changed.

You don't like Muslims living here and worshipping? Get the Constitution changed.

Hey, I'm all for abortions. The more liberals and the more RWNs that get abortions the better!

I'm just playing devils advocate there.

As far as Muslims worshipping in the US, no one has said anything against that... Everyone keeps ignoring the main part of all of this and that's the 9.11.11 part of the whole thing. As I said, I can bet you less people would have a problem with it, if it weren't for that...

[BobandXiaomei 14]

Hey, I'm all for abortions. The more liberals and the more RWNs that get abortions the better!

I'm just playing devils advocate there.

As far as Muslims worshipping in the US, no one has said anything against that... Everyone keeps ignoring the main part of all of this and that's the 9.11.11 part of the whole thing. As I said, I can bet you less people would have a problem with it, if it weren't for that...

And you completely dismissed my part that had it been Christians that crashed the planes into the towers... No one would raise an eyebrow about a new church or cathedral being built within 2 blocks of the site.

[chri'stina 190]

And you completely dismissed my part that had it been Christians that crashed the planes into the towers... No one would raise an eyebrow about a new church or cathedral being built within 2 blocks of the site.

I agree with you. But what if it had happened in a Muslim or Hindu or some other religion dominated country, I bet they wouldn't be happy about it. Not that I think that would be right at all, but just pointing out how humans behave irrationally about something different to them. I know this post might be get #######.

Edited August 18, 2010 by chri'stina

[Obama 2012 1,714]

And you completely dismissed my part that had it been Christians that crashed the planes into the towers... No one would raise an eyebrow about a new church or cathedral being built within 2 blocks of the site.

Depends really. I mean if it were a sect, then you'd have outrage against it. Could have been Catholics, Mormons, Methodists, Baptists, etc... and you'd see a hissy fit by a lot of people if those who did it were of that faith.

The truth is though, this plays a sore spot for a lot of people. Not only because of the supposed faith of those who committed the atrocity, but also by the fact that we are fighting those exact same people overseas still to this day. The same people who strap bombs to themselves and their children every other day and blow up a coffee shop or walk into the middle of a crowd.

There's animosity towards Islam with great reason, just as there's animosity towards the Catholic church for the kids that were abused... It doesn't make people bigots, it makes them worried and concerned when all they see in the media are "evils" committed by one group. If anyone is a bigot, it's the media for making it out to be that Muslims are bad. When was the last time you saw a good media story on the "good" that Muslims do around the world, here in the states, etc. - So many people only live their lives by the daily newspaper and daily newscasts. They don't see the "real" of the world.

[^_^ 5,021]

... what if it had happened in a Muslim or Hindu or some other religion dominated country ...

You're absolutely right, of course. But if we're going to let the lowest common denominator of human nature guide our actions, let's just throw out the Constitution and all our laws. Let's just do what people in other countries, at their worst moments, would do.

[chri'stina 190]

You're absolutely right, of course. But if we're going to let the lowest common denominator of human nature guide our actions, let's just throw out the Constitution and all our laws. Let's just do what people in other countries, at their worst moments, would do.

Remember, I said I don't think it would be right. And I was going to add that I think the US should be held to a higher standard because of touting freedom of religion, and that has to really mean freedom of religion. But then that makes the US sound like it's better than those other countries, and I am not willing to go there.

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't think every person who opposes this mosque is a bigot. I think who the person is who is opposing it makes the difference. I know of a lot of acquaintances, past school mates, of mine who are saying they oppose the building of the mosque on ground zero. Of those people I would only think of a small amount as possible bigots, depending on their track record. Others I would think of as uninformed and lazy because many assume it's being built directly on top of ground zero and don't look up anything for themselves. They follow along with whatever they hear being shouted about. But I know some of them well and I would not describe them as bigots overall, just uninformed. But some people around here(VJ) do act like bigots. The blindly following along happens on the left about a lot too IMO, people seem to love joining along with outrage and protests for their side's views, while completely insulting the other side instead of finding people from the other side who are willing to discuss it in a rational manner. I think some people enjoy being irrational and nasty.

How is being uninformed an excuse? The behaviour is bigoted whether one understands what one is doing or not.

[BobandXiaomei 14]

Depends really. I mean if it were a sect, then you'd have outrage against it. Could have been Catholics, Mormons, Methodists, Baptists, etc... and you'd see a hissy fit by a lot of people if those who did it were of that faith.

The truth is though, this plays a sore spot for a lot of people. Not only because of the supposed faith of those who committed the atrocity, but also by the fact that we are fighting those exact same people overseas still to this day. The same people who strap bombs to themselves and their children every other day and blow up a coffee shop or walk into the middle of a crowd.

There's animosity towards Islam with great reason, just as there's animosity towards the Catholic church for the kids that were abused... It doesn't make people bigots, it makes them worried and concerned when all they see in the media are "evils" committed by one group. If anyone is a bigot, it's the media for making it out to be that Muslims are bad. When was the last time you saw a good media story on the "good" that Muslims do around the world, here in the states, etc. - So many people only live their lives by the daily newspaper and daily newscasts. They don't see the "real" of the world.

Yes. It does. Bigotry is based on taking one or more negative elements of a group and imposing those on all members of that group.

The news media (maybe we can agree on this) limits 'fluff' stories. Molesting priests sells papers and air time. Muslim terrorists sells air time, but how Muslims are contributing doesn't. Especially in the US market.

[^_^ 5,021]

Yes. It does. Bigotry is based on taking one or more negative elements of a group and imposing those on all members of that group.

+1

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Yes. It does. Bigotry is based on taking one or more negative elements of a group and imposing those on all members of that group.

The news media (maybe we can agree on this) limits 'fluff' stories. Molesting priests sells papers and air time. Muslim terrorists sells air time, but how Muslims are contributing doesn't. Especially in the US market.

so you're saying 99% of the population is a bigot in one way or another?

[BobandXiaomei 14]

so you're saying 99% of the population is a bigot in one way or another?

You said that. Not me.