Deal with the Individual, Leave the Thread Be

[The_Dude 1,142]

Realistically, the VJ TOS are unlikely to be overhauled to an extent that will completely mollify those who are currently dissatisfied with them.

Therefore, here's a radical thought: Rejuvenate Expatgroups, and post away to heart's content. (That's what it was created for, right?) Or, forsake VJ in favor of a more general social-networking site with moderation that's more palatable. Either approach might make some people happier than continuing to tilt fruitlessly at the VJ windmill, si man?

So is it you and Darnell's crusade to get OT posters purged from the sight?

[TBoneTX 46,071]

I don't think anybody is unhappy with the TOS, or wants it to be overhauled. It's actually a good TOS, and were it enforced evenly and fairly, and were all sub-forums and all members--even moderators--held to it, I think things would be pretty darned peachy-keen around here.

Well then, given the spottiness of what gets reported, and in view of the certain levels of subjectivity that will always creep in when human beings are involved, perhaps some people who complain the loudest should be more generally forgiving -- and avoid posting things that might get them suspended. This is not that hard to do.

Two problems with this: Expats, ugh. What an absolutely horrid pile of shite that was and is. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Perhaps some people think that certain areas of VJ are becoming the same, and dislike it, and the Moderators are reacting to that.

Second, this sounds like the "if you don't like it here, go away" argument.

Sure -- either change a disagreeable situation or remove ourselves from it. We do this all the time, every day.

What's the alternative if we actually do like it here, and don't want to go somewhere else?

Again, it's obvious: Avoid posting things that might incur a suspension. This is not that hard to do. How many dozens (hundreds?) of VJ members have never been warned (let alone suspended) in comparison with the relatively small number of members who have been suspended multiple times? How does the first group avoid warnings & suspensions? Answer that and apply it, and problem solved.

[TBoneTX 46,071]

So is it you and Darnell's crusade to get OT posters purged from the sight?

Seeing things in messages that aren't there, so soon again? Where in that quote does anything say "purge"? Where does it mention Darnell? Where does it mention a crusade? Where does it say OT? Why are you objecting (before denying that you are, see "rolleyes" above)? Why don't YOU take the bull by the horns and rejuvenate the Expat group, and post there to your heart's content?

[Fandango 1,440]

Seeing things in messages that aren't there, so soon again? Where in that quote does anything say "purge"? Where does it mention Darnell? Where does it mention a crusade? Where does it say OT? Why are you objecting (before denying that you are, see "rolleyes" above)? Why don't YOU take the bull by the horns and rejuvenate the Expat group, and post there to your heart's content?

I read it the same as Rob, and mox. The 'crusade' more belongs to Darnell, but at the same time, your post did sound like the old 'you don't like it, leave' variety.

Mox explained it perfectly. No one here is arguing for the right to make this place expats. No one here is saying the TOS needs revamping. In this regard, we're saying that the modding by some is completely OTT. At least that's what *i'm* saying,

[^_^ 5,021]

You guys wanna make us all leave and quit?

Make Darnell moderator.

[TBoneTX 46,071]

At least that's what *i'm* saying,

That's fair. I'll say here that my problems with current moderation approach zero, and I agree 99.44% with reasons and rationales given for the moderation decisions of which I'm aware.

Question (for HB, Rob, mox, & Legacy): Whom would YOU nominate to replace the current dissatisfactory Moderation team? If it's inappropriate to name names here, then please suggest them privately to Admiral Ewok.

[mox 298]

Well then, given the spottiness of what gets reported, and in view of the certain levels of subjectivity that will always creep in when human beings are involved, perhaps some people who complain the loudest should be more generally forgiving -- and avoid posting things that might get them suspended. This is not that hard to do.

Human error is understandable and yes, part of the fabric. On the very rare occasion a moderator has admitted to mistakes (and I'm not talking about admitting to general mistakes, like "yes sometimes we make mistakes," but actual bona fide "sorry guys, I blew the call" mistakes) I've supported them. But let's think...can you remember the last time a moderator actually admitted to a mistake? Oh yeah, it was Brad, the newest moderator--did I mention he's a class act? But before that? *crickets*

I've got forgiveness coming out my dark smelly place, but it's a two-way street.

(as a side note, did you notice that right after Brad apologized, the issue was completely dropped? The moderating team seems to think that to admit error is to bring the wrath of the membership down on top of them, but it's actually the complete opposite.)

Perhaps some people think that certain areas of VJ are becoming the same, and dislike it, and the Moderators are reacting to that.

I wouldn't shed any tears if Off-topic were to disappear one day, for sure. On the other hand, I think it needs a simple fix: hold that forum to the same TOS that the rest of the site is held to. Stop with the "loosely enforced" BS that means different things to different people, and hold OT posters just as accountable as we do everywhere else.

Sure -- either change a disagreeable situation or remove ourselves from it. We do this all the time, every day.

Agreed 100%. I choose change.

Again, it's obvious: Avoid posting things that might incur a suspension. This is not that hard to do. How many dozens (hundreds?) of VJ members have never been warned (let alone suspended) in comparison with the relatively small number of members who have been suspended multiple times? How does the first group avoid warnings & suspensions? Answer that and apply it, and problem solved.

I think you're looking for a simple answer to very complex questions. I don't think it's gonna happen.

[^_^ 5,021]

Question (for HB, Rob, mox, & Legacy): Whom would YOU nominate to replace the current dissatisfactory Moderation team? If it's inappropriate to name names here, then please suggest them privately to Admiral Ewok.

I think the team in place is fine. But they do need to "cross train" a little and reduce the amount of variability in moderation outcomes.

[Jenn! 918]

As has been mentioned by the mods, for every mod decision that upsets someone, someone else applauds it (usually in private). Did anyone ever consider that things are the way they are because the majority really is happy? The minority can yell as loudly as they want to, but Ewok won't change things until it's not just the minority with the problem.

The issue of thread locking has been brought up so many times, I highly doubt that Ewok's mind will be changed on the subject.

[The_Dude 1,142]

That's fair. I'll say here that my problems with current moderation approach zero, and I agree 99.44% with reasons and rationales given for the moderation decisions of which I'm aware.

Question (for HB, Rob, mox, & Legacy): Whom would YOU nominate to replace the current dissatisfactory Moderation team? If it's inappropriate to name names here, then please suggest them privately to Admiral Ewok.

It's not necissarily the moderators, it's the lack of consistency in which they enforce the TOS, and the disregard (in some cirucumstances) of surrounding context to a conversation.

[Jenn! 918]

I've got forgiveness coming out my dark smelly place

No wonder no one's apologizing!

[The_Dude 1,142]

As has been mentioned by the mods, for every mod decision that upsets someone, someone else applauds it (usually in private). Did anyone ever consider that things are the way they are because the majority really is happy? The minority can yell as loudly as they want to, but Ewok won't change things until it's not just the minority with the problem.

The issue of thread locking has been brought up so many times, I highly doubt that Ewok's mind will be changed on the subject.

So if racist themed posts are applauded by the majority, that makes it alright to circumvent the explicitly denoted section of the TOS that address' that? That is a major point that many of us have tried to make over the last several months. Moderators have allowed blatantly racist posts to remain, merely because one of the major slurs that would incur an automatic ban weren't used. Slippery slope.

[mox 298]

Question (for HB, Rob, mox, & Legacy): Whom would YOU nominate to replace the current dissatisfactory Moderation team?

I think Brad was a fantastic start. Time will tell of course, and although I consider Brad a good friend, I won't pull any punches with him either. However, unlike most of the rest of the team, I expect Brad will moderate with common sense, fairness, and respect.

If it's inappropriate to name names here, then please suggest them privately to Admiral Ewok.

As I said before, private channels don't work.

I think Julez would be a fantastic pick to moderate the UK forum. I think Neonred or CixelSD (sp?) would be a great choice for RU.

No wonder no one's apologizing!

Bada-bing!

[Jenn! 918]

I think I've been on VJ for too long. I don't even know what "blatantly racist" means anymore. I get it confused with "anti-PC".

[Fandango 1,440]

As has been mentioned by the mods, for every mod decision that upsets someone, someone else applauds it (usually in private). Did anyone ever consider that things are the way they are because the majority really is happy? The minority can yell as loudly as they want to, but Ewok won't change things until it's not just the minority with the problem.

The issue of thread locking has been brought up so many times, I highly doubt that Ewok's mind will be changed on the subject.

In the thread I started before concerning 'going off topic in off topic' Ewok did finally admit that it shouldn't have been locked.

I think a lot goes on where we won't see it, that's cool. Ewok's not gonna openly 'side' against any mod publicly, but as he can't be here 24/7, he needs to be aware of what's going on. In the UK forum, there's a thread so modded-out that I've lost count of how many mods were in it. It's ridiculous. And yeah, perhaps there are some who applaud the mods' choices. For the most part, I think a lot of them do a good job. I think there's a tendency to get 'power hungry' so to speak, though.

I also think that the mod issue is getting out of hand for some, and will cause some to leave, which I wouldn't want to see happen.