Why Europeans Hate Tipping

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Rachel Ryan

For the past three weeks, my Italian friend, L, has been visiting. It has been an experience, to say the least – especially given that, until now, he had never been to the United States.

L is well traveled, but he has "never seen anything like this": the fleet of sunrise joggers that nearly stampede him every morning, the over-priced (but air conditioned!) D.C. Metrorail, the enormous portion sizes and the free refills … Virtually everything is an exciting novelty and he couldn't be more starry-eyed or visibly thrilled to be here – well, except for when the bill comes at the restaurant.

Albeit, no one is ever excited about dolling out 15 bucks for a burger, but with L, it is a bona fide ordeal.

"Why does the total not include the tax? We have to pay the tax anyhow, so why say total in the first place? It's like some mean trick, 'Hah! You thought your burger was only $15… gotcha!"

His indignant reaction to the "fake total" is only the tip of the iceberg … so to speak…

Most of the meals we've eaten out have involved me having to explain at length the concept of a tip, usually resulting in a lengthy explanation of waiters working primarily for tips due to their being paid minimum wage, thereby necessitating a brief overview of the roots of capitalism and consumerism, incentivizing workers to do their best, etc., to which he replies: "They chose to be waiters. They chose to work for minimum wage. If they want more money, get a higher paying job – don't expect me to tip you because you were nice and speedy. That's your job."

The first time L countered my 'it's the capitalist tradition to tip' argument with the above rebuttal, I was floored. Despite growing up in Italy – a country whose political culture is much more left-leaning with an enduring communist presence – he was clearly advocating a very capitalist, open job market in which unsatisfied workers are free to seek alternative employment. "No one is forcing them to wait tables. Go work at Starbucks or something," he said.

My argument for leaving a 15-20% tip (depending on how nice and speedy the service was) has henceforth been reduced to a stern, simple, "Look, it's just the way we do things here. You have to tack on an extra $3.25 to that $15 total. Sorry." L always relents, but not without muttering about it being "so much better in Italy," where tax and tip are included and there's never an awkward lull at the end of a meal while trying to figure out how much is dutifully owed.

http://www.frumforum...ns-hate-tipping

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We pay tips, they pay taxes.

[Captain Oates 911]

better tell him that bottom pinching is not allowed here

tips are a demeaning way to pay people but I am afraid he will come across far more disturbing things before he is finished so it's a good place to start..

When he is ready, tell him you can't park on the opposite side of the road facing traffic. Have a camera ready for the look of total unbelief.

Then tell him a motorcycle has to wait behind cars in a 30 mile traffic jam and move forward with his feet 6 inches at a time for hours - that will have him back on the plane in no time.. To an Italian that would be like eh are you mad ?

After a few years these insane conventions become normal and one doesn't even notice - it's called Stockholm syndrome.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

"Why does the total not include the tax? We have to pay the tax anyhow, so why say total in the first place? It's like some mean trick, 'Hah! You thought your burger was only $15… gotcha!"

http://www.frumforum...ns-hate-tipping

My brother-in-law's idiot father (from Iceland) hated the 5% (Mass) sales tax that was added on. He was much happier to pay 24% VAT that was built into Iceland's prices.

[SMR 368]

My brother-in-law's idiot father (from Iceland) hated the 5% (Mass) sales tax that was added on. He was much happier to pay 24% VAT that was built into Iceland's prices.

That's exactly why businesses do it that way here. When you don't realize you are paying taxes, you are complacent to it. Especially when it costs the same in all the other stores since they have the same built in tax. Americans have, admittedly, grown used to the added on sales tax and are also somewhat complacent about it. But if your state decides to add a couple percent onto the sales tax, everyone will at least notice. When it's wrapped into the whole price, you might not notice the difference between 24% and 26% and the government would have less accountability for raising the taxes.

It's the same concept with income taxes. For many Americans, income taxes are paid through deductions in your paycheck. Filing your taxes is a process that typically results in you getting a check from the government making the whole thing seem a lot less painful. In this way the government has made Americans more complacent. When they raise your taxes it results in you taking home a little less every week. Taking home $20 less a week may not seem like much. But if that same tax increase were implemented in such a way that people were writing a check for an extra $1000 on April 15, people would be up in arms.

[thongd4me 69]

Tipping is pretty much unheard of

(except in venues like 5-star hotels where foreigners

{Americans} don't know any better) in Thailand.

I've never felt good about our system where only in

certain businesses (restaurants & others associated

with travel & entertainment) there is a "de rigueur"

expectation that a tip will be paid.

I think the need for tipping came out of the tendency

of the owners of such businesses to pay lower

salaries than people could live on. That's why

the workers there have come to expect it as a

right rather than a bonus for a job well done.

Foreigners will point out that this notion is absurd.

Then the topic continues in the area of the need

for more government regulations/controls,

which are distasteful to many of us.

Some Americans don't tip because a tip is,

generally speaking, voluntary unless it's

printed on the bill and even if it is on the

bill there is no legal basis for adding it.

[Jenn! 918]

in Italy they have a "coperto", cover fee, which is usually only 1 or 2 euro, but it's still tacked on in addition to the total, which kind of blows L's whole argument.

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This thread makes me wanna watch Reservoir Dogs again. Maybe it's on onDemand.

[thongd4me 69]

This thread makes me wanna watch Reservoir Dogs again. Maybe it's on onDemand.

In my opinion a great film (watch it when the wife is away for the afternoon).

It's like a Guy Ritchie flick without the light-hearted moments.

Guy & Quentin are two of my favorite directors.

Quentin has had a hand in supporting a lot of good independent filmmakers in Asia.

My favorite recent Tarentino flick is "Death Proof" - 2007

Edited August 17, 2010 by thongd4me

[^_^ 5,021]

In my opinion a great film (watch it when the wife is away for the afternoon).

My wife loves it too. We have both talked about buying the DVD. Also Pulp Fiction and Kill Bill. We just haven't gotten around to it yet. Maybe that's what I'll do, instead of looking for it on onDemand.

[thongd4me 69]

My wife loves it too. We have both talked about buying the DVD. Also Pulp Fiction and Kill Bill. We just haven't gotten around to it yet. Maybe that's what I'll do, instead of looking for it on onDemand.

I get all my films (lots of good classics & foreign ones too) from the NY & Westchester public library systems.

The price is right.

I may not get to see absolutely every movie I would like to, but I've rarely come up empty on a search of their online collections.

[^_^ 5,021]

I get all my films (lots of good classics & foreign ones too) from the NY & Westchester public library systems.

They tell me our public library is way nicer today than it was in 1999 - the last time I set foot in there. I should go check it out.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

in some states, you don't even make minimum wage as a waiter. It's your job to make up the difference they pay you (which goes to payroll taxes mostly) and actually earn a wage.

Granted, if you work in a decent establishment, you can pull $100-$300 a night depending.

[^_^ 5,021]

Granted, if you work in a decent establishment, you can pull $100-$300 a night depending.

Often, more.

[Captain Oates 911]

$300 a night in tips..

I thought only pole dancers got that for the few years before the cellulite strikes and/or the drugs make their teeth fall out

jeez that's the last time I tip

You want a tip ? Don't take no plug nickels