Captain Ewok - what in the world is going on?

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

I actually think that a suggestion William made earlier (in the UK forum) is promising. Enforce the TOS rigorously in the upper forums. However, in the lower forums have a very basic one in place.

Racism, bigotry, extreme personal attacks, misogyny etc should be enforced and acted upon, but for everything else? I say let 'em fight it out amongst themselves. The worst profanities are filtered, so it can't get too bad on the whole. And we're all adults at the end of the day. Those big girl panties can be quite comfortable once you get used to them.

Place a warning at the top of the lower forms, just informing members that it is of adult content and they may read things that offend. Something like that.

It's a sad day in Chickenville.

This has been requested of me by the mods themself but I find myself having trouble "weeding out" things from the TOS "forums" areas. It is tough. Thoughts?

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

I want to note that in general, like the ACLU (article on this) in general I think that protecting all speech is important to the concept of freedom and to censor anything is often the wrong approach; fighting words with rational thought and education is always better than suppression and fighting. That said, this community is a place where people should feel protected to a degree against people or things that simply "tear" down a broad group of people.

This forum is not the US, it is VisaJourney -- a community of immigrants,their families and friends. Hate has no place here. Discussion "on hate" is certainly allowed but the active and knowing use of hate here of VJ against people is certainly prohibited. I have removed the link however I want to again draw a distinction in that "discussion of hate" as an educational opportunity is different than actively using or spreading "hate" against a broad group of people.

Although I just posted a page of posts myself (trying to address everyone), I would ask that for the sake of "clarity" any replies by direct and on topic. Thank you.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I reported that thread at what would have been about 2am PST, so the middle of the night. I don't know what the interface looks like for reports but I definitely hit the button, which is something I have done maybe less than 5 times in the past year.

It's interesting that although that topic (with the word porn in the title)received no moderator interest in spite of the fact it referred to that website, bukkake, was at the top of Off Topic's most popular threads and a regional moderator was posting in it (and commenting on the website), YET a thread in the UK subforum which was significantly less offensive (though maybe a bit colorful) was visited by 3 mods and Captain Ewok in the same period. The UK thread is now closed while the other remains open.

It's hard not to look at that and feel that some moderating are driven by personal agendas, and, as ever, pretty inconsistent.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Trompe le Monde

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

First, thank you for the honest feedback. I appreciate the time you and others have taken to express your concerns.

As to your concern, I can not personally speak to the mods and what threads they visit outside their moderation duties, however I can say that I personally respond directly to reports vs. randomly hunting for problems. For that reason I would ask that people use the report system when they spot a problem. If there is a "no issue" then the report may be closed however we may not know about a true issue unless it is reported.

Regarding the UK thread: it is closed right now for review. It may indeed be re-opened or if found, some content removed for TOS issues and then re-opened. I am directing mods to take a closer look there pending my review.

As a final note, if you still feel a moderation decision needs reviewed then please use the following form (having and option for this):

http://www.visajourney.com/contact/

You can use that to contact me directly.

I know that we all (here at VJ) have the best interests for the welfare of the community in mind. If the general response time is too slow then that may be a sign we need more moderators to cover items or potentially more defined "guides". Both of these are my responsibility. For the record, I will be adding one additional moderator and also refining some guidelines at a meeting this week with the moderation team.

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

Re: why the topic referenced in this topic is "open" while the other is closed pending review.... namely that topic was less than 10 posts long and the offending post was already removed. As such it was left open. The UK topic is many pages and will require longer to review. I know myself and all the mods are not online 24/7 so sometimes that may take longer than I know you may like. If you wish to restart the topic then you can do that with my permission. Please no TOS issues . If the OT is re-opened we can re-merge the two .

[mox 298]

I will take you at your word. As a bit of advice if you are genuine.

Things that help me help you (this is in general):

Be specific

Be direct and to the point

Make well thought out statements with some backup if possible

I HAVE been specific. I HAVE been direct and to the point. I HAVE written volumes of well thought out statements with link after link after link citing my position. None of it seems to matter to you.

I don't see you making any effort to engage the community. You side with your moderators almost (but not all, I concede) the time, you arrive on the scene WAY too late and then make broad promises of change, and while you do make noise that you care, you almost never back it up with action.

The "dumpster sluts" thread was left up for hours and hours and hours, and during that time there were no less than 3 moderators participating in this forum where the thread kept being mentioned. They certainly had time to chastise me for making trouble, but couldn't be bothered to actually do their jobs. Why?

You quoted the hundreds of tickets you have to deal with, and yet a suggestion that's been made over and over is to get at least another admin (not moderator) to help you out with these chores. You've not even given lip service to it. Complaints about your moderators continue to run rampant, but you don't do anything about it. And even if there's something happening behind the scenes, it certainly doesn't seem to translate out here in the foreground.

Things that make me a bit frustrated:

Attack others to make your point

Sarcasm used to sneak "pokes"

Reporting mod decisions simply because you do not like the mod

Being rude

I do not mind if someone thinks I or the team can do better. But the best way to raise things is to be polite, illustrative and logical.

I'll stop all these things when your moderators stop doing these things. Yesterday Charles basically called Mavin a #######, to the extent that his post was removed. Those are the kinds of things that make me and other members frustrated. What are you doing about this continued abuse being hurled from your moderation team? I'm sick of being lectured on my rudeness while your mod team gets away with it constantly.

[mox 298]

Reporting mod decisions simply because you do not like the mod

And sorry, I meant to address this point separately, because it just shows that you either have a very short attention span, or you refuse to listen. It's well documented that I don't like the moderator in question (Charles) on a personal level. I think he's mean-spirited, he goes out of his way to belittle women, he is borderline racist (actually I think he's completely racist, but he manages to keep his posts borderline), and he is just overall rude to anyone not in his little circle of friends. This ground has been covered multiple times.

But so what?

Have I ever complained about him when he's expressed an opinion that I just don't like? No. I complain about his moderating practices, and I complain when he (often) violates the TOS. Every single link I've ever forwarded, every complaint I've ever had about him, has been about his actions as a moderator or when he is violating the TOS. In fact Ewok, YOU challenged me to do this. When his "welcome" thread became the most contentious thread pretty much ever on this board, you told me to watch him, to "give him a chance," to let him show his qualities. And when I took you up on it, you accused me of picking on him. You were completely disingenuous about all of it.

So kindly remove this item from your list, because it's bullsh*t. I don't report or complain about moderators because I don't like them, I report or complain about them because they are either not doing their job, or they're abusing their position.

On the other hand, I would challenge you, Ewok, to start holding your moderators accountable instead of letting your personal friendships shield them.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I really don't understand why the UK thread required so much moderator attention - yet a few other threads at the top of OT with "sex" or "porn" in the thread were untouched during the same period. I've found a few more "offensive" posts, including a personal attack, but I'm not wasting my time reporting them to prove a point - they aren't exactly hard to find.

I'm personally of the "we are all adults here" approach except in more extreme situations, but the modding of the UK thread appears completely inconsistent with the much worse stuff you regularly find in OT and I am calling it out. It appears to be motivated by something other than keeping VJ a family-friendly site free from sexually explicit language.

[SMOKE 1,426]

You quoted the hundreds of tickets you have to deal with, and yet a suggestion that's been made over and over is to get at least another admin (not moderator) to help you out with these chores.

oh oh me me me ewok. lemme do it! you know i'd be fair. just tell me where the IP permaban button is.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

I find it noteworthy that the other week when there was a flurry of threads about sexual issues (including several in which VJ men admitted to using prostitutes, not minding if their daughters were prostitutes, and said some truly gut-wrenching things about women in general) there was little to no modding.

[SMOKE 1,426]

I find it noteworthy that the other week when there was a flurry of threads about sexual issues (including several in which VJ men admitted to using prostitutes, not minding if their daughters were prostitutes, and said some truly gut-wrenching things about women in general) there was little to no modding.

what do you think should have been done? inviso'd posts? locked & deleted? suspensions?

if you pick suspension...who? the person making the remarks that offended you, or the OP that knew those remarks were a matter of time?

[The_Dude 1,142]

There were 3 global mods and 2 junior woodchuck moderators in the UK forum at one point and they all seemed to be micromanaging every single post. Have we reached that level of censorship on this board where I can't be snide? Are the mods going to start editing posts because someone has a condescending tenor to their posts? The moderating in that UK forum is both insipid and petty.

[SMOKE 1,426]

The moderating in that UK forum is both insipid and petty.

could be a 'when in Rome' thing...idk just a thought.

[mox 298]

what do you think should have been done? inviso'd posts? locked & deleted? suspensions?

if you pick suspension...who? the person making the remarks that offended you, or the OP that knew those remarks were a matter of time?

I can't speak for Maven, but what I think she was getting at is that it seems to be ok for a bunch of guys to have locker room conversations of the most graphic sort, but let her mention a hand job in a humorous context, and not only does she have her post removed, but she also has one of the junior woodchuck moderators de facto branding her with a scarlet letter. It's a double standard, and it's BS.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

what do you think should have been done? inviso'd posts? locked & deleted? suspensions?

if you pick suspension...who? the person making the remarks that offended you, or the OP that knew those remarks were a matter of time?

I think what should have been done is what WAS done for the most part: let the words stand as they are as the petard on which the posters might hoist themselves. Anything slanderous (I can't recall if there was anything) should be removed. I would never have called for a suspension or a lock or a deletion. Not my bag for this sort of talk.