The Cheap Politics Of Ethnic Fear: Change The 14th Amendment By Kicking Babies To The Curb?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Richard Greener

It's easy to say, "No more birthright citizenship for US-born children of illegal immigrants." That's the idea behind the movement to change the 14th Amendment, which grants such birthright citizenship to "all persons." While some believe this change may be accomplished through legislation, others see no way around the "all persons" wording in the 14th Amendment. What part of "all persons" can be honestly misunderstood?

It's more difficult to say, "Who is, and who is not, a child of illegal immigrants?" Of course, if you use "immigrants" in the plural, then the literal meaning requires two illegal parents - mother and father. However, recent research and the potent political winds blowing across the country this electoral season lean toward having only one illegal parent to disqualify the offspring for birthright citizenship. The Pew Research report (August 2010) shows a total of 340,000 US births for children of "illegal immigrants." And, the Pew report specifies that such children need have but a single illegal parent to be counted. Nowhere in the report is there a breakdown of those 340,000 births that would show how many of those children have at least one US citizen parent, either mother or father.

Let's say you wrote a new constitutional amendment, one designed to specifically prohibit birthright citizenship to those children with illegal immigrant parents. How would you word it? Would you insist that both mother and father have to be here in the United States illegally? Or is only one parent, mother or father, enough to disqualify the newborn baby as a new US citizen?

If you required both parents to be here without legal permission, how would you go about making that determination? Would we have to ID every woman presenting herself at a US hospital to deliver a child? And, how could we ever properly ID the child's father? Do you favor DNA testing for all births - the mother, the father and, of course, the newborn baby? If you do, think about this for a moment. There are more than 4.25 million births in the United States every year. Can you facilitate more than 12 million DNA tests, every year? Who's paying? Yes, I know there are supposed to be only 340,000 births from illegal parents, not four and a quarter million. But, we live in a system that demands equal protection under the law. Not all illegals are brown-skinned Mexicans and Latin Americans. And not all Mexicans and Latin Americans have brown skin. The second largest number of illegals living freely among us are from - Canada. Illegals come from dozens of countries around the world - from Europe, Asia, Africa, from everywhere. They look like you and me, like everyone else. Due process would demand that each and every mother-to-be, plus the designated father-to-be must present proper ID and be DNA tested. We need proof of citizenship, right?

Then, what comes next? If you find two illegal parents and now a newborn as well, is the baby also illegal? Does the hospital call ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement)? Are all three - even the baby? - sent off to jail to await deportation?

Say your new amendment provides for only one illegal parent (like the Pew Research report). If the mother is a US citizen and the father is not - he is an illegal alien - do you deny citizenship to the citizen-mother's child? Really - you could do that? You can comfortably deny the American birthright of the child of an American mother? And sleep soundly? Perhaps, the mother is illegal and it is the father who is an American citizen. The same "new amendment" applies. Are you prepared to tell an American father that his newborn is not an American? Who volunteers to do that testy notification?

And, now you have decided that only one illegal parent is enough under your "new amendment" to deny the baby US citizenship. So, is this non-citizen newborn also here illegally? Where is the baby's documentation? Does the baby have a passport or a visa? Does the hospital call ICE and have the one illegal parent, and the newborn baby, taken away to a detention center? How do explain that to the remaining US citizen parent? Do you want to be the one?

We may disagree as to the number. Again, the Pew report doesn't tell us. But, surely, of the 340,000 illegal births, there must be many tens of thousands of such mixed-parent babies born here every year. Maybe there are hundreds of thousands of them. What will you do? How will you do it? And who will you hire to actually carry out this policy of forced family separation?

Or, do you simply deny US citizenship to the baby and let everyone go back to life as they led it before - in which case what's the point of changing the 14th Amendment? All you'll accomplish is the growth of the resident community of non-citizens and now you will add a new group of stateless babies to the mix. There's a future to ponder - the stateless wandering among us.

If this isn't bad enough, deal with this reality. What do we do with women who present themselves for delivery and cannot - or will not - identify the baby's father? If the mother-to-be is an illegal alien, do you automatically assume the unknown father is too?

How could anyone want to live in a country that would do this sort of thing to its pregnant women and newborn babies? How many native-born Americans would stand for the humiliation of the process of proving their American citizenship? I am the American-born father of four, and I would have had to be restrained. You see that, don't you?

If anything needs changing it's not the Constitution. It's the cheap politics of ethnic fear tarnishing the American political landscape. The stink is unbearable. If anyone needs to be booted out of here, it's the people behind this, the politicians who would win elections kicking babies to the curb and American values into the toilet.

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[Danno 1,228]

If one parent is a citizen, Child should be as well.

What I find funny about this debate is your sudden loss of interest in how these things are done in Europe.... as well as your rejection of a "Evolving constitution".

A year or so ago I made the point that the 14th does not include illegals..... who would have thought in just these few months this debate would gain traction and momentum?

[evli1966 88]

Richard Greener

It's easy to say, "No more birthright citizenship for US-born children of illegal immigrants." That's the idea behind the movement to change the 14th Amendment, which grants such birthright citizenship to "all persons." While some believe this change may be accomplished through legislation, others see no way around the "all persons" wording in the 14th Amendment. What part of "all persons" can be honestly misunderstood?

It's more difficult to say, "Who is, and who is not, a child of illegal immigrants?" Of course, if you use "immigrants" in the plural, then the literal meaning requires two illegal parents - mother and father. However, recent research and the potent political winds blowing across the country this electoral season lean toward having only one illegal parent to disqualify the offspring for birthright citizenship. The Pew Research report (August 2010) shows a total of 340,000 US births for children of "illegal immigrants." And, the Pew report specifies that such children need have but a single illegal parent to be counted. Nowhere in the report is there a breakdown of those 340,000 births that would show how many of those children have at least one US citizen parent, either mother or father.

Let's say you wrote a new constitutional amendment, one designed to specifically prohibit birthright citizenship to those children with illegal immigrant parents. How would you word it? Would you insist that both mother and father have to be here in the United States illegally? Or is only one parent, mother or father, enough to disqualify the newborn baby as a new US citizen?

If you required both parents to be here without legal permission, how would you go about making that determination? Would we have to ID every woman presenting herself at a US hospital to deliver a child? And, how could we ever properly ID the child's father? Do you favor DNA testing for all births - the mother, the father and, of course, the newborn baby? If you do, think about this for a moment. There are more than 4.25 million births in the United States every year. Can you facilitate more than 12 million DNA tests, every year? Who's paying? Yes, I know there are supposed to be only 340,000 births from illegal parents, not four and a quarter million. But, we live in a system that demands equal protection under the law. Not all illegals are brown-skinned Mexicans and Latin Americans. And not all Mexicans and Latin Americans have brown skin. The second largest number of illegals living freely among us are from - Canada. Illegals come from dozens of countries around the world - from Europe, Asia, Africa, from everywhere. They look like you and me, like everyone else. Due process would demand that each and every mother-to-be, plus the designated father-to-be must present proper ID and be DNA tested. We need proof of citizenship, right?

Then, what comes next? If you find two illegal parents and now a newborn as well, is the baby also illegal? Does the hospital call ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement)? Are all three - even the baby? - sent off to jail to await deportation?

Say your new amendment provides for only one illegal parent (like the Pew Research report). If the mother is a US citizen and the father is not - he is an illegal alien - do you deny citizenship to the citizen-mother's child? Really - you could do that? You can comfortably deny the American birthright of the child of an American mother? And sleep soundly? Perhaps, the mother is illegal and it is the father who is an American citizen. The same "new amendment" applies. Are you prepared to tell an American father that his newborn is not an American? Who volunteers to do that testy notification?

And, now you have decided that only one illegal parent is enough under your "new amendment" to deny the baby US citizenship. So, is this non-citizen newborn also here illegally? Where is the baby's documentation? Does the baby have a passport or a visa? Does the hospital call ICE and have the one illegal parent, and the newborn baby, taken away to a detention center? How do explain that to the remaining US citizen parent? Do you want to be the one?

We may disagree as to the number. Again, the Pew report doesn't tell us. But, surely, of the 340,000 illegal births, there must be many tens of thousands of such mixed-parent babies born here every year. Maybe there are hundreds of thousands of them. What will you do? How will you do it? And who will you hire to actually carry out this policy of forced family separation?

Or, do you simply deny US citizenship to the baby and let everyone go back to life as they led it before - in which case what's the point of changing the 14th Amendment? All you'll accomplish is the growth of the resident community of non-citizens and now you will add a new group of stateless babies to the mix. There's a future to ponder - the stateless wandering among us.

If this isn't bad enough, deal with this reality. What do we do with women who present themselves for delivery and cannot - or will not - identify the baby's father? If the mother-to-be is an illegal alien, do you automatically assume the unknown father is too?

How could anyone want to live in a country that would do this sort of thing to its pregnant women and newborn babies? How many native-born Americans would stand for the humiliation of the process of proving their American citizenship? I am the American-born father of four, and I would have had to be restrained. You see that, don't you?

If anything needs changing it's not the Constitution. It's the cheap politics of ethnic fear tarnishing the American political landscape. The stink is unbearable. If anyone needs to be booted out of here, it's the people behind this, the politicians who would win elections kicking babies to the curb and American values into the toilet.

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I would say the writer is posing more fear of doing the right thing which is in opposition of his view.

Just so you know there is so few women going through pregancies with out seeing a doctor prior to going to 9 months that point of checkin gID at the hospital is moot.

I agree when the change comes it will need to spell out if a child will need both parents or only 1 to be legal.

That brings to question if it is 1 parent what if the new generation of young men (Johnny Apleseeders) that are fathers of many children by many women and married to none.

Or

what if 2 is required

The parents of child where 1 parent has or is patitioning the other must they wait until the parent is made leagl and then petition the child or will the child be made citizen as soon as the parent is.

I am for the 14th amendment reform but we muxt word any reform carefully.

[peejay 327]

The Huffington Post? No surprises there.

I'm sure Arianna Huffington is down in the trenches along with Mother Theresa and Steven saving all the babies of the world. I wonder how many third world children Steven and Arianna are sponsoring through the Save the Children Fund? Or do they just expect the US taxpayer to pick up their slack? I'll give you three guesses and the first two don't count. Talk is cheap. So is expecting someone else to save the world.

[mawilson 2,133]

There are more than 4.25 million births in the United States every year. Can you facilitate more than 12 million DNA tests, every year? Who's paying?

A DNA paternity test costs $500-1000.

Prenatal care, delivery, hospital stay, and postnatal care costs $5,000-10,000.

Just add it to the hospital bill and make the mother pay.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

A DNA paternity test costs $500-1000.

Prenatal care, delivery, hospital stay, and postnatal care costs $5,000-10,000.

Just add it to the hospital bill and make the mother pay.

I think we should send Steve the bill. See how he feels about paying for all by himself for the illegal bastards.

[Atencio 43]

A DNA paternity test costs $500-1000.

Prenatal care, delivery, hospital stay, and postnatal care costs $5,000-10,000.

Just add it to the hospital bill and make the mother pay.

It doesn't matter if the mother is an illegal or not. EMTALA forces any hospital to care for her and Medicaid will pick up the tab.

Pick another argument.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It doesn't matter if the mother is an illegal or not. EMTALA forces any hospital to care for her and Medicaid will pick up the tab.

Pick another argument.

It's a legitimate argument. Illegals inflate the number we are forced to pay for. If they weren't encouraged to be here, they wouldn't add to the tab.

Something I don't understand at all is the LIBERAL argument that denying the babies of illegals birthright citizenship punishes them by denying them a higher status than they would get by taking on citizenship of the country of their parents. Is theirs inferior to ours?

And, the way children in the family who are not born here remain illegal while the ones born here are not? Where is the mercy in distinguishing children of the same parents in the same family by citizenship? They should all be the same. That must not be allowed to continue.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Sofiyya

[mawilson 2,133]

It doesn't matter if the mother is an illegal or not. EMTALA forces any hospital to care for her and Medicaid will pick up the tab.

Pick another argument.

All I'm saying that DNA paternity tests should be mandatory when the mother

is not a US citizen and lists a US citizen father on her child's birth certificate.

[Atencio 43]

It's a legitimate argument. Illegals inflate the number we are forced to pay for. If they weren't encouraged to be here, they wouldn't add to the tab.

Something I don't understand at all is the LIBERAL argument that denying the babies of illegals birthright citizenship punishes them by denying them a higher status than they would get by taking on citizenship of the country of their parents. Is theirs inferior to ours?

And, the way children in the family who are not born here remain illegal while the ones born here are not? Where is the mercy in distinguishing children of the same parents in the same family by citizenship? They should all be the same. That must not be allowed to continue.

My only point Wilson is that if the baby is born here the delivery will be paid for and immigration status plays no factor in it.

The rest of your arguments we have went over and over without resolution and are just repeating the same points.

[Atencio 43]

All I'm saying that DNA paternity tests should be mandatory when the mother

is not a US citizen and lists a US citizen father on her child's birth certificate.

If the father is a US citizen why is this necessary? I totally disagree. You present a precedent that no matter how well intended leads to places I would rather not see the government go.

[Pooky 3,795]

My only point Wilson is that if the baby is born here the delivery will be paid for and immigration status plays no factor in it.

The rest of your arguments we have went over and over without resolution and are just repeating the same points.

And when the same general subject gets reposted, the same arguments are going to come up time and again. So your point is?

[mawilson 2,133]

If the father is a US citizen why is this necessary?

To prove that the person listed on the birth certificate is indeed the father.

Edited August 15, 2010 by mawilson

[Atencio 43]

To prove that the person listed on the birth certificate is indeed the father.

I suppose it would prove the child is the Fathers but again that is a precedent I don't favor.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Atencio

[peejay 327]

I suppose it would prove the child is the Fathers but again that is a precedent I don't favor.

The states are already doing that to go after fathers of welfare babies to get them to pony up to their responsibilities. This is nothing new and has been going on for quite a while. Why should the taxpayer have to pay if the father is capable of doing so?