Chinese general backs the American dream

[Darnell 8,478]

You support limitless immigration numbers, the rest of the developed world does not.

Actually, there is a limit, and it's published yearly and in the Monthly Visa Bulletin.

I'm going to guess - you are confusing 'illegal aliens with unlawful presence in the USA' with actual immigration process, yes?

Please don't count the 'illegal aliens with unlawful presence in the USA' when you are comparing immigration numbers from one country to the next - it's a disservice to all of the bean-counters worldwide, and you open yerself up for closer scrutiny.

[Heracles 417]

Actually, there is a limit, and it's published yearly and in the Monthly Visa Bulletin.

I'm going to guess - you are confusing 'illegal aliens with unlawful presence in the USA' with actual immigration process, yes?

Please don't count the 'illegal aliens with unlawful presence in the USA' when you are comparing immigration numbers from one country to the next - it's a disservice to all of the bean-counters worldwide, and you open yerself up for closer scrutiny.

Considering 1 in 3 immigrants is an illegal alien, I'd say their numbers are a big deal. In fact, even DHS and USCIS think so, hence the data on them.

[Darnell 8,478]

Considering 1 in 3 immigrants is an illegal alien, I'd say their numbers are a big deal. In fact, even DHS and USCIS think so, hence the data on them.

Oh, I never said it wasn't a 'big deal' - it's just yer use of the word 'unlimited' that had no place in this supposed discussion.

Legal Immigration into the USA, as well as Australia, is limited, each year.

You are still confusing 'immigrants' with 'illegal aliens' - is not the same label, not the same moniker. You are deciding to continually mislabel, is some confusion on your part? I hope not, as you can get some charts and graphs on illegal aliens to prove up yer point, and quickly.

[Darnell 8,478]

To any China-bound VJ members -

HEY !! This is a fairly substantial article - what are your thoughts on General Liu's personal safety over the next few weeks?

------

Chinese general backs the American dream

JOHN GARNAUT, BEIJING

August 12, 2010

A CHINESE general has warned his conservative Communist Party masters and People's Liberation Army colleagues that China can either embrace American-style democracy or accept Soviet-style collapse.

While officers of similar rank have been rattling their sabres against US aircraft carriers in the Yellow and South China seas, General Liu Yazhou says China's rise depends on adopting America's system of government rather than challenging its presence off China's eastern coast.

''If a system fails to let its citizens breathe freely and release their creativity to the maximum extent, and fails to place those who best represent the system and its people into leadership positions, it is certain to perish,'' writes General Liu in the Hong Kong magazine, Phoenix, which is widely available on news stands and on the internet throughout China.

His article suggests China's political and ideological struggles are more lively than commonly thought, and comes before a rotation of leaders in the Central Military Commission and then the Politburo in 2012.

''The secret of US success is neither Wall Street nor Silicon Valley, but its long-surviving rule of law and the system behind it,'' he says. ''The American system is said to be 'designed by genius and for the operation of the stupid'. A bad system makes a good person behave badly, while a good system makes a bad person behave well. Democracy is the most urgent; without it there is no sustainable rise.''

General Liu was recently promoted from deputy Political Commissar of the PLA Airforce to Political Commissar of the National Defence University. His father was a senior PLA officer and his father-in-law was Li Xiannian, one of China's ''Eight Immortals'' and one time president of China.

While many of China's ''princelings'' have exploited their revolutionary names to amass wealth and family power, General Liu has exploited his pedigree to provide political protection to push his contrarian and reformist views.

But his article is extraordinary by any standards. It urges China to shift its strategic focus from the country's developed coastal areas including Hong Kong and Taiwan - ''the renminbi belt'' - and towards the resource-rich central Asia. But he argues that China will never have strategic reach by relying on wealth alone.

''A nation that is mindful only of the power of money is a backward and stupid nation,'' he writes. ''What we could believe in is the power of the truth. The truth is knowledge and knowledge is power.''

But such national power can only come with political transformation. ''In the coming 10 years, a transformation from power politics to democracy will inevitably take place,'' he writes.

''China will see great changes. Political reform is our mission endowed by history. We have no leeway. So far, China has reformed all the easy parts and everything that is left is the most difficult; there is a landmine at every step.''

General Liu inverts the lesson that Chinese politicians have traditionally drawn from the collapse of the Soviet Union - that it was caused by too much political reform - by arguing reform arrived too late.

''Stability weighed above everything and money pacified everything, but eventually the conflict intensified and everything else overwhelmed stability,'' he writes.

Since 2008 the Communist Party has steadily tightened the political screws to stifle all manner of civil organisation and dissent. Many Chinese are concerned that China's political reforms have been blocked by powerful military, corporate and princeling interest groups that benefit from the status quo.

General Liu was famously outspoken until he stopped publishing his essays about five years ago. Sources close to General Liu say those early published essays have cost him opportunities for promotion.

It is unclear how his latest article appeared in Phoenix and whether he has backing from allies within the system. Last year, Hong Kong's Open magazine published a leaked report of one of General Liu's internal speeches which raised the taboo topic of how some generals refused to lead troops into Tiananmen Square in 1989.

General Liu returned to the subject of Tiananmen in his Phoenix article, writing that ''a nationwide riot'' was caused by the incompatibility of China's traditional power structures with reform.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/chinese-general-backs-the-american-dream-20100811-11zsr.html

[justashooter 430]

What superpower? China can't even get off their own soil and when you say "good mates" do you really mean "they're so scared of US naval power they've asked us to say we're buddies?"

how true, how true. 75% of chinese live hand to mouth on unmechanised agriculture, without electricity or running water, much less heat in the winter. been there and seen it close up.

their economy, in general, is built on bad paper with non-performing loans to SOE that are 5-8 times the cash reserve, and about 5-8 times the GDP. it's getting harder and harder for them to hide this unpleasant truth, and a single run on chinese banks would crash their entire economy for 20 years.

face it folks, the hard earned renmimbi of 3 generations of chinese has been leveraged out 3 times over, and the govt ain't holding enuf reserves to back it up. china can't afford a political melt down and the associated run on the banks.

the tight rope we're walking ain't nearly as high as what they are balanced on. truth is it's all one big gamble they began to make 15 years ago, and it's hard for chinese to back down from a game even if they are winning, which they ain't, any more. the chips are gonna fall in your lifetime, and it ain't gonna be pretty. if it gets ugly enuf you will be seeing a western peace force pointing guns at chinese while we hand out the food they're gonna be starving for.

[Heracles 417]

How long before the general ends up missing on assignment?

[justashooter 430]

unpretentious loser.

pretentious loser.

As doesn't pretending the US is still the leader of anything, other than GDP and Military.

you can thank macarthur for saving your little wasteland of an island by pouring out a bottle of scotch on his grave. it's tradition, ya know.

[Heracles 417]

pretentious loser.

you can thank macarthur for saving your little wasteland of an island by pouring out a bottle of scotch on his grave. it's tradition, ya know.

If Australia is a wasteland, than what the heck is the US?

Your slim-esque get er done opinion on China's economy demonstrates you have little grasp of anything apart form guns. I'd stick to discussing them rather than anything financial. Otherwise, you must have missed the part where you owe them over $800 billion. Or the $1.2 trillion they have in cash.

PS If you are going to talk about poverty, start by looking in your own literally shitty backyard.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Heracles

[mawilson 2,133]

Otherwise, you must have missed the part where you owe them over $800 billion. Or the $1.2 trillion they have in cash.

$800 billion doesn't seem like a lot these days.

[Heracles 417]

$800 billion doesn't seem like a lot these days.

If the US paid China back what it owed them, then add the $1.2 trillion they have in cash, they have enough cash to purchase 13,334 state-of-the-art F22. They could actually use that money to borrow even more.

While shooters argument of they are still poor is true, China is strategically not flooding the country with money. In fact, they are using this money to invest in companies and resources throughout the world. The Chinese philosophy has always been lay low and build yourself up. Then at the right time, they will pump that money straight back in.

They're using federalism to their advantage, to build the country's wealth. They have enough money to purchase a large number of US companies. China is also educating and graduating thousands of engineers.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Heracles

[Kathryn41 3,205]

thread closed at the OPs request