Moroccan group calls for fast-breaking in public

[nab 74]

You're right, just because people do something in the USA does not mean it has to be accepted everywhere else in the world. But laws should not be in place or enforced to prevent someone from being offended or insensitive.

As for the smoking, both of my parents smoke, and I refuse to let them smoke in my house and they know how much I hate it. When I see them my father will not smoke in front of me, while my mother could care less. And it makes both my father and I upset she does that, and he's not saying "OMG how dare you smoke that cigarette in front of me," but is more upset that she is being inconsiderate of others around her. And again, second hand smoke is hazardous, eating is not.

Now if I were on a diet and not eating, and with 2 friends and they both knew I was dieting, and the one refrained from eating in front of me while the other didn't, I can say that yes I would feel bad for me friend that is suffereing and not eating because of me and my choice to diet. i would never tell anyone they can't eat in front of me or get upset for them doing it, and as Jenn said, its not like people are gloating about it.

As for people coming back to Islam around Ramadan, and that seeing people breaking the fast can cause them to fall back away from Allah again, well what about all the Christians who only fill the churches during Christmas and Easter. Should it be said then that during this time everyone should refrain from using profanity, drinking alcohol, gambeling, the list goes on and on, because a person who sees another doing these during these holy times can cause them to fall back into their sinful ways?

And as for lent, Catholics do not eat meat on friday during lent, however you can walk into any restaurant and order a steak or hamburger all year, and there are many Catholics that do it to, but you don't hear them saying "look how rude they are, they know its lent and we can't eat meat, they should show us respect and remove meat from the menu, or refrain from eating it unless they are at home." So no, not everyone repects other religions, its not just Muslims.

guess i didnt get my thoughts across properly, sorry, because that is NOT what i meant. i said it is a distraction, not that it causes them fall away. since we keep referring to american and christian things (even though this is a muslim/foreign country at issue) how about this: decent people know not to speak during quiet prayer in church = it is an obnoxious selfish distraction. "talking" isnt illegal and doesnt hurt anyone, but there is a time and place... think of ramadan as your quiet prayer time...it is a month of worship.

so when someone plops down beside you in church on Christmas with a big sloppy submarine sandwich or a turkey leg, i dont want to hear any complaints teasing

Edited August 11, 2010 by nab

[nab 74]

didnt add to edit:

as for the catholic thing ...

i wish everyone would refrain from cursing, drinking, and gambling... all time... not just at Christmas and Easter.

and walking into a restaurant is much different (your own choice) than walking down street and getting confronted by a group of people intent on causing a scene (not a nice thing).

[mandyu1 5]

guess i didnt get my thoughts across properly, sorry, because that is NOT what i meant. i said it is a distraction, not that it causes them fall away. since we keep referring to american and christian things (even though this is a muslim/foreign country at issue) how about this: decent people know not to speak during quiet prayer in church = it is an obnoxious selfish distraction. "talking" isnt illegal and doesnt hurt anyone, but there is a time and place... think of ramadan as your quiet prayer time...it is a month of worship.

so when someone plops down beside you in church on Christmas with a big sloppy submarine sandwich or a turkey leg, i dont want to hear any complaints teasing

Ok, in case you didn't read my first 2 posts to this thread, I never mentioned other religions or America until you came along and started comparing seperation of religion and state in the USA, how muslims are treated differently compared to other religions, women wearing bikini's in the bible belt, and the debate about the mosque at ground zero. So since you included in your posts and like to compare how muslims are treated differently from other religions in the USA, I will compare how other religions are treated here in the USA.

Second, I never said it was right for a person to eat in front of someone else while they fast, but said it would be courteous of them if they didn't. My argument is that a law should not be imposed simply because some people are weak, and need to have their hand held in order to serve Allah.

Also, the post refers to breaking fast in public, which means in a restaurant and/or in the street. So since you are saying that going into a restaurant or a cafe is a person's choice, would it then be ok to say that the law should only be enforced on those who are walking in the street eating. Because the people that come into the cafe or restaurant are coming by choice and if they have a problem with seeing people eat then they should leave or stay home.

Also, I am Muslim so I won't be going into church on Christmas, but if I was I could care less if someone was eating next to me. I will also be going to Egypt in a few weeks and will finish Ramadan there and celebrate in the feast, but in the days prior to the feast if I seen someone eating while I was fasting I would not care, I'm a bit more mature than that, and wouldn't cry and complain over something so pety.

A saying many people in the world should learn.."pull up your big girl/big boy pants and get over it."

[New Beginnings 32]

Temptations are all around us, whether it's Ramadan or Lent there's always something there trying to pull us off course. I don't think the answer to faith is to create laws trying to prevent these temptations. I would argue at that point that it is not faith holding you back that it is in fact fear of the earthly consequences.

I think faith is having those temptations all around you and remembering why you are doing what you're doing. I think that is when it is truly in your heart.

[Jenn! 918]

Another article on the same subject in The Economist:

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To fast or not to fast

Some harassed libertarians say you should be free not to observe Ramadan

Aug 12th 2010 | Rabat

THE law in several countries, mostly in the Persian Gulf but also in the Maghreb and parts of Indonesia, provides for stiffer penalties for those who break fast in public, ranging from fines to flogging. Take article 222 of Morocco’s penal code, dating from the era of the French protectorate, which states that “a person commonly known to be Muslim who violates the fast in a public place during Ramadan, without having one of the justifications allowed by Islam [such as travelling or sickness], shall be punished by one to six months in prison,” as well as a fine.

Last Ramadan, a small group of young Moroccans calling itself the Alternative Movement for Individual Freedoms decided to hold a picnic near Casablanca, the country’s commercial capital, to protest against this law. They argue that article 222 clashes with Morocco’s international obligations and its constitution, which guarantee freedom of conscience. They were arrested before getting a chance to take a bite.

This picnic protest was treated as a national emergency. A council of Islamic scholars said it was an insult to God. King Muhammad VI’s political adviser persuaded all parties, including ones that routinely denounce Islamists, to issue condemnations for the sake of national unity. The activists were held and interrogated for several days, though ultimately not fined or taken to court. Police said they had to be protected from popular anger. Some of the protesters’ families and friends refused to speak to them for months.

“We respect religion, but the problem is that people think public space is only for the majority who are believers,” says Najib Chaouki, one of the campaigners. He is not, for now, planning to repeat last year’s picnic but has relaunched his campaign for the right not to fast in public spaces. He has featured in reports on al Arabiya and al Jazeera, the Arab world’s most popular satellite news channels. His website and Facebook group have had hundreds of comments.

Some support him but most call him an apostate or lament that he and his friends do not tackle issues such as poverty. He has had several death threats. Only a handful of Moroccans, such as the editors of the country’s first gay magazine (published for the time being in Spain), have backed the non-fasters.

http://www.economist.com/node/16793362?story_id=16793362

[anxious 0]

Hi everyone,

Im muslim so it's natural thinking for me to support Shariah law. I just find it a bit

hypocritical to enforce one aspect like fasting but serve alchohol to tourists. hmmm.

btw, pregnancy, menstruating women, nursing women, sick, elderly, children, mentally incapable are all excused from fasting

in Islam, you just have to make up the days or feed a hungry person depending on which reason it is.