Policy Arguments in Favor of Retaining America’s Birthright Citizenship Law

[evli1966 88]

Billions of people want to come here to work. Do you want to accommodate all of them?

Of course he does that way Unemployment goes up and the government will keep handing out checks to people so they can sit on ther arses or go to school forever.

I do not believe Steve has a real grasp on how illegal immigration and birth rights are effecting the economy and straining the lifes of the american people.

How many illegals are not considered poor in this country? how many legal residents here now legally are still poor? how many US citizens that we now have are poor? the legal immigrants and citizens are here we need to care for them not add to the masses that need help.

That is reality!

By is somewhat correct in his arguements not all but we do need to care as we can for what we have now not add to it.

The more we add the more resentful the people of the USA will become resentful. There are now hispanics speaking out againt illegals as well as many other ethnic groups they are the ones waking up as was mentioned earlier. Laws need to be carfully changed now not when the panic button is hit and knee jerk laws are formed.

Edited August 9, 2010 by evli1966

[DEDixon 39]

We are nation of immigrants and we should never lose that unique quality that makes America, America.

no one is purposing that america halt immigration.

[peejay 327]

As for making the argument that some foreigners are coming here just to have a child born on U.S. soil, reminds me of similar arguments made against welfare - that women are having babies to get more benefits. Most of the population growth in this country is coming from immigrants (both legal and illegal), and to the Nativists, this is alarming. If our aim is reducing illegal immigration in this country, then the focus should be on how to make it legal for those who want to come here to work. All these other measures like changing the 14th Amendment are draconian and quite frankly unAmerican. We are nation of immigrants and we should never lose that unique quality that makes America, America.

That is not true. The vast majority of America is not made up of immigrants. It is made up of native born Americans. That is just another of many cliches the misguided keep repeating to the ignorant to justify stupid policies that have outlived their usefulness in the face of common sense.

And amending the constitution and passing immigration laws is unAmerican? Are you for real? There are 27 constitutional amendments that stretch from the founding of our country to the last enacted in 1992. The Immigration Act of 1924 slashed immigration to a mere tens of thousands per annum for decades. UnAmerican my azz! Where do you come up with such nonsense?

[DEDixon 39]

That is not true. The vast majority of America is not made up of immigrants. It is made up of native born Americans. That is just another of many cliches the misguided keep repeating to the ignorant to justify stupid policies that have outlived their usefulness in the face of common sense.

And amending the constitution and passing immigration laws is unAmerican? Are you for real? There are 27 constitutional amendments that stretch from the founding of our country to the last enacted in 1992. The Immigration Act of 1924 slashed immigration to a mere tens of thousands per annum for decades. UnAmerican my azz! Where do you come up with such nonsense?

TRUE!!!

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Steve you ever thought about joining a commune? Just think you could grow your own fruit!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Billions of people want to come here to work. Do you want to accommodate all of them?

Of course not. Work visas already exist and have an annual cap. The problem is that there are no legal avenues for many looking to work here in low end jobs, but that's a different thread.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

That is not true. The vast majority of America is not made up of immigrants. It is made up of native born Americans. That is just another of many cliches the misguided keep repeating to the ignorant to justify stupid policies that have outlived their usefulness in the face of common sense.

And amending the constitution and passing immigration laws is unAmerican? Are you for real? There are 27 constitutional amendments that stretch from the founding of our country to the last enacted in 1992. The Immigration Act of 1924 slashed immigration to a mere tens of thousands per annum for decades. UnAmerican my azz! Where do you come up with such nonsense?

Oh, that's rich. How many generations can you go back in your family that were born here in the states? Your Nativist ideas are showing their ugly head. It's always ironic that children or grandchildren of immigrants will quickly embrace Nativism, showing a discontent towards foreigners "invading their land."

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Of course not. Work visas already exist and have an annual cap. The problem is that there are no legal avenues for many looking to work here in low end jobs, but that's a different thread.

Are there 12 million low end jobs available?

[Heracles 417]

Of course not. Work visas already exist and have an annual cap. The problem is that there are no legal avenues for many looking to work here in low end jobs, but that's a different thread.

FFS 1 in 8 Americans is on food stamps, 10% of the country is unemployed and 18% percent underemployed and 11,000,000 Californians are living in poverty, yet you want even more people to come work low end jobs, as if there is not already enough.

Wake up dude.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Heracles

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

FFS 1 in 8 Americans is on food stamps, 10% of the country is unemployed and 18% percent underemployed and 11,000,000 Californians are living in poverty, yet you want even more people to come work low end jobs, as if there is not already enough.

Wake up dude.

He is awake thats whats sad.

[Heracles 417]

That is not true. The vast majority of America is not made up of immigrants. It is made up of native born Americans. That is just another of many cliches the misguided keep repeating to the ignorant to justify stupid policies that have outlived their usefulness in the face of common sense.

And amending the constitution and passing immigration laws is unAmerican? Are you for real? There are 27 constitutional amendments that stretch from the founding of our country to the last enacted in 1992. The Immigration Act of 1924 slashed immigration to a mere tens of thousands per annum for decades. UnAmerican my azz! Where do you come up with such nonsense?

Spot on peejay and also true about the amendments. Hence them being amendments.

Steven just doesn't seem to grasp the issue of people being able to fly here for the first time in their life and basically have a baby, in order for it to be grated citizenship.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There is no economic nor ethical reasoning to change the jus soli rule of citizenship, and doing so, as the OP argued would make create a lot of problems. It's dangerous ground to meddling with the 14th Amendment from a simple method of citizenship to something much more complicated.

As for making the argument that some foreigners are coming here just to have a child born on U.S. soil, reminds me of similar arguments made against welfare - that women are having babies to get more benefits. Most of the population growth in this country is coming from immigrants (both legal and illegal), and to the Nativists, this is alarming. If our aim is reducing illegal immigration in this country, then the focus should be on how to make it legal for those who want to come here to work. All these other measures like changing the 14th Amendment are draconian and quite frankly unAmerican. We are nation of immigrants and we should never lose that unique quality that makes America, America.

I don't think there's any meddling with the 14th amendment going on. Yes, there are people talking about it but that ain't ever going to happen. Even if Congress would somehow find a 2/3 majority in support of a change to the constitution, there's still the burden of 3/4 of the states ratifying such a change. Fat chance.

What ought to be a legitimate debate is whether or not the 14th amendment actually covers birthright for children born to persons in the country w/o actual resident status. If you're not a resident here, then perhaps you're not really under the jurisdiction of the US. Why is it a taboo to talk about that?

As for the latter part of your argument, I provided a very specific scenario that doesn't even involve any illegal migration. Baby tourism. Happens each and every day and it shouldn't. The only reason baby tourism exists is because of the granting of citizenship to those born here to their tourist mother. There's got to be a way to stop such insanity.

Reduce illegal immigration by making it possible for everyone that wants to come here to work to come here legally? What the ** are you smoking? You'd have tens - if not hundreds - of millions of people from all corners of the world coming here. Sure, that would an end to the housing crisis real quick as housing would be in such high demand that prices would skyrocket once again. Of course, we have 20-30 million people that are here already and have every right to be here that would like to work but can't for lack of available jobs. You want to add another 100 million or so to that mix? Very realistic. Really.

[peejay 327]

Oh, that's rich. How many generations can you go back in your family that were born here in the states? Your Nativist ideas are showing their ugly head. It's always ironic that children or grandchildren of immigrants will quickly embrace Nativism, showing a discontent towards foreigners "invading their land."

We are a nation of immigrants

If you are discussing immigration with a friend, you are likely to hear him reflexively blurt out the gem: "this is a nation of immigrants." When he does, simply point out to him that eighty-five percent of the residents of the United States were born here.

How could that preponderance of home-grown Americans justify us being called a "nation of immigrants"?

Certainly we are descendants of immigrants (as is everyone in the world), but that is not the same thing as being an immigrant.

Anyway, such a statement is no justification for continued mindless mass immigration just for the sake of more mindless mass immigration. The inference that "We are a nation of immigrants and, therefore, we must not limit immigration" is a classic example of circular argument. A dog chasing its own tail.

What is says is this: Because we are a nation of immigrants, we have to allow for perpetual mass immigration which, in turn, makes us a nation of immigrants. Hence its circularity.

Circular arguments are invalid in the logical sense by virtue of how they are structured and not what do they mean. They lead to faulty (and, therefore, useless) reasoning in which the thesis (the very thing which is to be proved) is used as a premise in its proof.

And circular arguments certainly do not form a good basis on which to formulate sound and prudent public policy.

Your ancestors were immigrants!

OK, yes, my ancestors came from somewhere other than North America. So did yours. So did everyone else's, in fact—including those of the Native Americans.

No matter where you live in the world you have an ancestor from somewhere else.

In other words, every nation is a "nation of immigrants;" the slogan is meaningless and certainly no realistic basis for prudent public policy.

That my ancestors were immigrants is irrelevant to the formation of a prudent public policy today; just because a policy was appropriate in the past does not mean it is necessarily eternally prudent and appropriate forever.

If my ancestors were pioneers, am I constrained to advocate expansionism forever?

[Fandango 1,439]

I don't think there's any meddling with the 14th amendment going on. Yes, there are people talking about it but that ain't ever going to happen. Even if Congress would somehow find a 2/3 majority in support of a change to the constitution, there's still the burden of 3/4 of the states ratifying such a change. Fat chance.

What ought to be a legitimate debate is whether or not the 14th amendment actually covers birthright for children born to persons in the country w/o actual resident status. If you're not a resident here, then perhaps you're not really under the jurisdiction of the US. Why is it a taboo to talk about that?

As for the latter part of your argument, I provided a very specific scenario that doesn't even involve any illegal migration. Baby tourism. Happens each and every day and it shouldn't. The only reason baby tourism exists is because of the granting of citizenship to those born here to their tourist mother. There's got to be a way to stop such insanity.

Reduce illegal immigration by making it possible for everyone that wants to come here to work to come here legally? What the ** are you smoking? You'd have tens - if not hundreds - of millions of people from all corners of the world coming here. Sure, that would an end to the housing crisis real quick as housing would be in such high demand that prices would skyrocket once again. Of course, we have 20-30 million people that are here already and have every right to be here that would like to work but can't for lack of available jobs. You want to add another 100 million or so to that mix? Very realistic. Really.

He probs wants to buy them all airline tickets too. You know, for those who cannot afford it themselves...

____________________

Also:

Simple math shows we cannot continue to be 'a nation of immigrants'.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Happy Bunny

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Simple math shows we cannot continue to be 'a nation of immigrants'.

Aside from the math, common sense says that we ought to be able to select who can and who cannot immigrate. We can't pretend that there are an infinite amount of low skilled jobs to be had. There aren't.