Citizenship From Birth

[Heracles 417]

Yes I agree with you in part. Stop the incentive. The biggest incentive though is work, not having babies. If they are working the babies care will still be paid for from Medicaid. The kid will still go to school. After all, people would cry murder if we did not care for the children. What have you really accomplished.

The biggest incentive for those who come here illegally on their own is work. Yet for a family, it would be to have their child raised in a first world country. No amount of low skilled work can compare to the potentially hundreds of thousands of free services [and priceless opportunity] their child will receive.

America is not UNICEF, as such it needs to look out for what is in the best interest of Americans. Relying on antiquated legislation is not only stupid but extremely dangerous for the country's future. You guys already rank poorly versus the rest of the first world and have a long way before you catch up, yet some of you want even more poor to enter. You're a bit different though, because you don't care where your country ranks versus the rest of the world. Just in case you have forgotten, ranks means how good you are versus them.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Heracles

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Read the history of the amendment and not base opinions on anti-illegal immigration websites

As I have said countless times I want to protect this country by securing the border, not by denying some kid that is all ready here citizenship status. You want to waste time and money changing a law that is not going to fix the real problem.

don't have to change anything....

and I've never been to an "anti-immigration" website lol.... Doesn't interest me really.

History is what interests me. Well aware of case law regarding bastardization of the 14th amendments original intent.

We all ignore the fact that Senator Howard and Cowan both agreed that those born to foreigners would NOT be citizens. I/e this "birth tourism" ####### is actually illegal under the 14th amendment as originally intended. - An illegal knocked up woman popping out her brat as she crosses the border, is not legal in terms of the 14th amendment.....

Now, I will accept the argument wholeheartedly though that if an illegal has been here for awhile and has a child, then yes that child is a citizen as obviously the illegal has established a certain type of residency and an intent to have their life here, so long as they aren't doing other activities along the lines of stealing identities from Americans, etc..

The point is though, the law doesn't have to change. You just have to enforce the 14th amendment as intended. If you end "birthright citizenship" for foreigners/illegals as intended, you'll keep a lot of people out...... Not all, but quite a bit.

[Heracles 417]

Your misrepresenting the facts. Go back and read that Wiki entry on Jus soli and there you will see that even countries like Australia have a modified version of Jus soli (birthright citizenship). It also indicated that the U.S. has benefited from it in that we have been this great melting pot. Even though we have enclaves like Little Tokyo or Little Saigon in Southern California, the people there consider themselves Americans and proudly so. As for the countries that have conditions on birthright citizenship, there are problems with classes of people who are stateless, and unfree labor from a helot underclass. You have Greek ancestors, so I'm guessing you know something about helots?

Yes, they amended their Constitution. A majority of civilized countries amend their Constitution accordingly, to adjust to the challenges presently facing their country. They way some of you guys speak, the thought of amending this document is unfathomable. Of course, lest we forget the 27 amendments, or the amendment to give slaves and women equal voting rights. How dare they touch that document.. Bastards!!

Considering 1 in 4 Australians in 2010 was born abroad, I think I have a pretty good idea regarding immigration, citizenship and the best approach. If my anecdotal experience as you call it fails, the surely you will accept the United Nations, which ranks them 2nd in the world, out of 180 plus countries; with immigration being one of key factors in the ranking.

In contrast and as pointed out earlier, since the majority of people were born here, the US is hardly a country of immigrants anymore. Certainly nowhere near Australia's current one in four ratio. In fact, the US currently stand at about 1 in 8, with 1 in 3 being illegal aliens. _{Source: http://www.cis.org/immigrants_profile_2007}

Edited August 10, 2010 by Heracles

[Atencio 43]

The point is though, the law doesn't have to change. You just have to enforce the 14th amendment as intended.

First you need to get the Supreme Court to reverse their opinions of what the law says.

[Heracles 417]

The site had some interesting points, like:

• Since 2000 to 2007, 10.3 million immigrants have arrived — the highest seven-year period of immigration in U.S. history. More than half of post-2000 arrivals (5.6 million) are estimated to be illegal aliens.
  
• Immigrants account for one in eight U.S. residents, the highest level in 80 years. In 1970 it was one in 21; in 1980 it was one in 16; and in 1990 it was one in 13
  
• Overall, nearly one in three immigrants is an illegal alien. Half of Mexican and Central American immigrants and one-third of South American immigrants are illegal.
  

What do you think this has done for the living standard of Americans? Don't embarrass yourself by saying improved it. Or for the millions of American in poverty?

Edited August 10, 2010 by Heracles

[scandal 951]

So you're proud of a country that let you abuse its system?

I have abused nothing and no one. I have broken no laws and traipsed on none of your rights. You are on thin ice with that accusation. You are now accusing a fellow VJ member, one whom you don't know from Adam, of "abusing" US law.

In all honesty, you are not a citizen by means of the 14th amendment.

In all honesty, I most assuredly am a citizen of the United States, have the documentation to prove it, and exercise the privileges and bear the responsibilities of that citizenship each and every day.

You have the right to your opinion and to voice it, but not change these facts as they stand.

We are on an Internet message board. You can rant. You can rave. You can huff and puff and threaten to blow my house down because my sheer existence belies your mistaken views.

But my house will go on standing despite your huffing and puffing. And I will be in it. And I will continue to be exactly what I always have been: a citizen of the United States of America. And you will simply be wrong. Completely, utterly, entirely dead wrong. Sucks to be you.

[^_^ 5,021]

+1 scandal

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I have abused nothing and no one. I have broken no laws and traipsed on none of your rights. You are on thin ice with that accusation. You are now accusing a fellow VJ member, one whom you don't know from Adam, of "abusing" US law.

In all honesty, I most assuredly am a citizen of the United States, have the documentation to prove it, and exercise the privileges and bear the responsibilities of that citizenship each and every day.

You have the right to your opinion and to voice it, but not change these facts as they stand.

We are on an Internet message board. You can rant. You can rave. You can huff and puff and threaten to blow my house down because my sheer existence belies your mistaken views.

But my house will go on standing despite your huffing and puffing. And I will be in it. And I will continue to be exactly what I always have been: a citizen of the United States of America. And you will simply be wrong. Completely, utterly, entirely dead wrong. Sucks to be you.

you have your citizenship illegally according to the 14th amendment, but that's fine. There's several million more like you unfortunately.

[Heracles 417]

We are on an Internet message board. You can rant. You can rave. You can huff and puff and threaten to blow my house down because my sheer existence belies your mistaken views.

This coming from the guy who claims Chicago is the best city in the world, because he says so - his opinion basically. Studies that actually contrast and compare cities are apparently irrelevant and wrong, when compared to his opinion.

Paul, have you heard of Chicago's mile? Apparently the best in the world. Rome, Paris, Sydney, London, Seattle, Vancouver, Dubai don't have anything on this mile.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Heracles

[^_^ 5,021]

Motion to disband judicial system and declare Paul Emperor.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Motion to disband judicial system and declare Paul Emperor.

more like motion to stop judicial activism and people who cannot read nor understand who can and cannot be a citizen.

Some twerp who's parents jumped ship after the kid was born showed no allegiance whatsoever to this nation, as he even said himself.

By in large, Scandal took advantage of a broken system. Granted he was allowed to do so by morons who accept this abuse and misrepresentation of the intent of the 14th amendment. But it still doesn't change the fact by all intents and purposes what went on was wrong in his story.

With him publicly coming out and posting his story, then it's open for attack and breakdown in its nature. This is off-topic after all, not the upper immigration forums where you'd get a bit more respect on such a post.

He took advantage of a 'loophole' granted by judicial activism and not what the authors of the 14th amendment ever intended to happen.

[Heracles 417]

Motion to disband judicial system and declare Paul Emperor.

Two separate discussions going on here. The first being about the context of the amendment and the other regarding the applicability and validity of it in the 21st century. Apparently both Scandal and Steven have more common-sense then pretty-much every other first world country.

Nevertheless, Scandal would still be granted citizenship in most first world countries, because his parents were legal residents. I doubt anyone has a problem with that. The issue the majority of us on here have is with the children of those here illegally or those not residents being able to quality for citizenship. Like people paying to enter as tourist, give birth to a child and then leave back to their home country; with their child now a US citizen.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Heracles

[^_^ 5,021]

more like motion to stop judicial activism and people who cannot read nor understand who can and cannot be a citizen.

Some twerp who's parents jumped ship after the kid was born showed no allegiance whatsoever to this nation, as he even said himself.

By in large, Scandal took advantage of a broken system. Granted he was allowed to do so by morons who accept this abuse and misrepresentation of the intent of the 14th amendment. But it still doesn't change the fact by all intents and purposes what went on was wrong in his story.

With him publicly coming out and posting his story, then it's open for attack and breakdown in its nature. This is off-topic after all, not the upper immigration forums where you'd get a bit more respect on such a post.

He took advantage of a 'loophole' granted by judicial activism and not what the authors of the 14th amendment ever intended to happen.

Like I said. Let's just declare you Emperor.

Scandal would still have been granted citizenship in most first world countries, because his parents were legal residents. I doubt anyone has a problem with that.

Herr Emperor does.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Two separate discussions going on here. The first being about the context of the amendment and the other regarding the applicability and validity of it in the 21st century. Apparently both Scandal and Steven have more common-sense then pretty-much every other first world country.

Nevertheless, while I have joked on scandal in the past, Scandal would still be granted citizenship in most first world countries, because his parents were legal residents. I doubt anyone has a problem with that. The issue the majority of us on here have is with the children of those here illegally or those not residents being able to quality for citizenship. Like people paying to enter as tourist, give birth to a child and then leave back to their home country; with their child now a US citizen.

See, this is interesting though, as he said. His parents were here for education and work reasons temporarily. They had no allegiance to the states and jumped ship and never came back when he was an infant. We're not talking about a Permanent Resident here, we're talking about student/work visas that are temporary.... If the parents have no intention of showing allegiance to the states and take their child out after birth, then that is hardly grounds for giving the child citizenship as obviously the jurisdiction lies with the home country in this case.

Like I said. Let's just declare you Emperor.

I'd make you Vice-Emperor!

[Atencio 43]

He took advantage of a 'loophole' granted by judicial activism and not what the authors of the 14th amendment ever intended to happen.

I gave you quotes of congressmen who were there when the amendment was written. Instead of just telling us what the authors really meant and that the Supreme Court doesn't know anything why don't you offer up some legit information to persuade us why you are right?. Because quite frankly you haven't supplied any sort of evidence other than your own bias opinions.

Why for instance is the Supreme Courts interpretation wrong? I am dying to know.