Need some advice please. I posted and nobody responded. So I will repost. It's about proving marriage fraud.

[Peace be still 6]

He lied to her about his education. He told her that he had a 4yr degree in criminal justice. She was very clear to him about her education and how it wouldn't work with her having a Master Degree if she was with someone that had no degree at all. He showed her a degree in Morocco but when it was sent to get evaluated here in the states it's a High School Diploma. He made like he went to a University in Rabat. For her career it doesn't look good for her at all.

[Darnell 8,479]

What steps has she taken, already, to document this 'marriage fraud' ?

[dan_ling 6]

He lied to her about his education. He told her that he had a 4yr degree in criminal justice. She was very clear to him about her education and how it wouldn't work with her having a Master Degree if she was with someone that had no degree at all. He showed her a degree in Morocco but when it was sent to get evaluated here in the states it's a High School Diploma. He made like he went to a University in Rabat. For her career it doesn't look good for her at all.

If she has a copy of the Visa application and he listed the school and receiving a Master's Degree then this is fraud, and when he signed the Visa application as being true then couldn't his Visa be denied and Greencard revoked?

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

She has an appointment with USCIS on Aug 9th. She was married in Morocco, how would she file for a divorce here? She asked him to leave her place but he refuses to, and she's to embarrassed to call the police because of her professional career. It's a sticky situation. All I know is that she's not happy at all. She says this man has 2faces. In front of people he smiles and laughs, and as soon as they are alone, he doesn't talk to her. All he does is spends his time on the computer. He's playing a really good game. He doesn't go out and have much communication with other Moroccans, but he is making her life a living hell.

It doesn't matter where she was married. There is no requirement that you get a divorce in the same country where you were originally married. If she's a resident of the state she lives in (usually only requires that you've lived there a while) then she can file for a divorce in that state's family courts.

If she has a copy of the Visa application and he listed the school and receiving a Master's Degree then this is fraud, and when he signed the Visa application as being true then couldn't his Visa be denied and Greencard revoked?

The misrepresentation has to be "material", as in the decision might have been different if the truth were revealed. His educational background is not a material fact to be considered in determining whether he gets a visa or a green card. In order to be used as a reason for denial the immaterial misrepresentation would need to have been discovered at a time when an immigration officer still had discretion; either at the visa interview or when the green card was being adjudicated. Now that the visa and green card have been approved, they've accepted the fleas with the dog. At this point, they'd have to prove it was never a dog to begin with; i.e., that he lied about something that would have resulted in a denial if he'd told the truth.

[Mithra 1,185]

I fail to see how lying about education means marriage fraud.

Unless she has solid proof of actual fraud ie emails or letters stating that he married your friend just for immigration or something similar I don't think she has much of a case. She should probably cut her losses, divorce her husband (if she truly is unhappy and wants out)and let him remove conditions on his own. We're only hearing one side of the story and maybe the marriage just isn't working out. I understand the desire for seeking "revenge" because she feels scorned but it may end up hurting her more than if she just divorced the guy. If he is guilty of fraud he's awful stupid for messing things up when he's so close to the finish line.

[JeanneVictoria 55]

He lied to her about his education. He told her that he had a 4yr degree in criminal justice. She was very clear to him about her education and how it wouldn't work with her having a Master Degree if she was with someone that had no degree at all. He showed her a degree in Morocco but when it was sent to get evaluated here in the states it's a High School Diploma. He made like he went to a University in Rabat. For her career it doesn't look good for her at all.

This statement bothers me. Seems as if she doesn't see him "worthy" of her. I find it very sad.

[Mithra 1,185]

^^^^^^I guess I didn't read that part closely (I skim way too much). If you want to know why the man lied about his education the bolded parts are a clue. The bolded parts are so telling about the dynamics of the relationship and could also be the reason why the man doesn't speak to his wife. Just a thought.

I'm also wondering why this woman would marry someone from a third world country who is possibly and most likely beneath her socioeconomically speaking. She sounds like a snob to be honest.

Edited August 8, 2010 by je veux ton amour

[thongd4me 69]

I fail to see how lying about education means marriage fraud. ...

It may not be marriage fraud (as the I-325A personal history form does not require

educational degrees to be listed), but it's fraud against the petitioner which, if the

petition is successful becomes fraud in the marriage.

If he thought it was OK to lie about that just to get on her good side when he was

warned about her feelings in that area, how would she feel when he, as the

father, teaches their kids to lie about anything in order to advance themselves?

[belinda63 3,047]

Man if everyone who lied to their to be spouse was guilty of marriage fraud there would be a lot of annulments in the US. She may find it personally offensive and feel as though he misrepresented himself to her but I don't see how this would be immigration fraud.

[thongd4me 69]

^^^^^^I guess I didn't read that part closely (I skim way too much). If you want to know why the man lied about his education the bolded parts are a clue. The bolded parts are so telling about the dynamics of the relationship and could also be the reason why the man doesn't speak to his wife. Just a thought.

I'm also wondering why this woman would marry someone from a third world country who is possibly and most likely beneath her socioeconomically speaking. She sounds like a snob to be honest.

You're entitled to your opinion but that reflected her values & comfort level at the time.

She doesn't have to apologize for that, but she WILL have to deal with the results of her actions

that resulted from subsequent events.

It wasn't the inequality as such that got to her as much as his dishonesty.

If the beneficiary is illiterate and homeless does that make the petitioner a snob?

At what point does she become free of snobbishness if there are inequalities in the relationship?

That having been said, nobody is perfect.

My wife and I have accepted that.

My rule after a failed first marriage was that I can't expect a new wife

to change as I expected my first wife to (guess what, she didn't).

My current wife and I believe firmly in "what you see is what you get."

Not everybody agrees with that and the OP's friend

can't be so accepting as my wife and I are.

"What you see is what you get" does not go as far as to condone serial dishonesty.

We aren't afraid to tell each other about unfortunate events in our past and we

haven't falsified anything about who we are to the other.

That's what being honest means.

The OP's friend may have to re-evaluate her idea of what the commitment

of marriage means to her. The OP says she is going through a nervious

breakdown and can't handle the stress regarding how a divorce will be

viewed and how her obligations toward him may continue despite her protests.

When there's a breach of trust within a marriage it can't avoid threatening the relationship.

Finally, she has to reconcile the inherent conflict that she has allowed herself to be set up for.

She made some decisions that resulted in him coming to this country

and now she has new decisions to make.

Whether the values she had (regarding his status versus hers) when she made the

decision to marry him were wrong or right won't help her much now.

[Mithra 1,185]

If he were illiterate I would hope she would pick up on that prior to going through immigration. I get that she's upset that he lied, I would be upset as well. However, her attitude explains why he would lie and it also explains why their marriage is failing. If she's unhappy she needs to get out of the marriage but she can't exactly cry immigration fraud based on a lie about schooling.

[thongd4me 69]

If he were illiterate I would hope she would pick up on that prior to going through immigration. I get that she's upset that he lied, I would be upset as well. However, her attitude explains why he would lie and it also explains why their marriage is failing. If she's unhappy she needs to get out of the marriage but she can't exactly cry immigration fraud based on a lie about schooling.

That all may be true but he'll have a hard time explaining to prospective employers

that a HS diploma is the equivalent of a university degree.

Oh I forgot, he'll just show them the HS diploma in Arabic and tell them that he's an electrical engineer.

Again, I said it wasn't immigration fraud, just fraud in the marriage.

[Peace be still 6]

My friend was advised by the immigration officer to send in all her proof of why she feels it's a fraudulant marriage. He is the one that constantly puts her down, and tries to rob her of her self-esteem. She's depressed like she never been before. This is a woman that is now on medication for depression because this man is driving her insane. Not to mention that she just shared with me that at times he even physically assualts her. She's too embarrased to call the police because of her standing in the community.

[Fandango 1,440]

Nothing you've mentioned illustrates marriage/visa fraud. Sounds like the marriage is breaking down, yeah. Sounds like he's showing his true colors, yeah. Unfortunately, when one doesn't have the luxury of spending a lot of time in real llife with a future spouse, it's easy to lose one's self in the idea of who that person is, spending holidays abroad, what (s)he says over the phone, chats, etc. Hearing and witnessing are two different things.

I really have no advice concerning how to proceed other than to echo what others have said. If there are instances of actual visa fraud, then she needs to start collecting solid evidence. A husband turning into a prat is not visa fraud.

As an aside, this was obviously posted in the wrong forum to begin with...please don't berate other posters because it wasn't commented on quickly enough. I understand you may be frustrated, but it's really not an excuse.

[Darnell 8,479]

My friend was advised by the immigration officer to send in all her proof of why she feels it's a fraudulant marriage. He is the one that constantly puts her down, and tries to rob her of her self-esteem. She's depressed like she never been before. This is a woman that is now on medication for depression because this man is driving her insane. Not to mention that she just shared with me that at times he even physically assualts her. She's too embarrased to call the police because of her standing in the community.

So - are you helping her to generate and collect evidence ?

Should start with 'letter of attestation' that briefly lists each occurence, then have other affadavits itemizing each occurrence of visa fraud.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Darnell