we dont have pictures and we haven't been to each other's country

[Ihavequestions 419]

A K-1 visa is for couples that aren't married. This couple has a registered marriage, in Pakistan (however even the status of that marriage is iffy because they've never consumated the marriage).

[belinda63 3,038]

Yes but since the marriage is not recognized by the US because it was never consummated the only option would be to file for a K-1, which would require an in person meeting, or to consummate the marriage which would require an in person meeting. With the K-1 there is a very slim chance of obtaining a hardship waiver. I can think of two cases in the past several years where this has been approved.

[Prawninator 138]

Still, it wouldn't hurt to try and apply for a hardship waiver, considering his travel restrictions and her health.

Either way, good luck! I hope it works out for you!

[lynJer 7]

i am so stressed out reading all these forums and seeing AP after approval and denials and such... really need things to go smoothly, we have been waiting so long before filing, but his education is now completed and i have had many health issues so really need him to get here quickly!

one thing i keep seeing listed as a necessity is photos of the wedding. we have none. we got married via phone and even if i had been there in person no photos would have been allowed. his family was mostly there, father and brothers, though mother of course was not allowed to go to mosque.

we have our nikah nama (notarized by ministry of foreign affairs), have marriage registration certificate/number (where it is filed with govt) and have a city court judge affidavit as well.

as for proof of ongoing relationship, before we were married we had many phone calls and many yahoo calls (thankfully free, i dont know what we would do without them! we would go crazy!!) and since marriage last year we have had a call plan on home phone for when internet is down (500 minutes a month that we usually go over = NOT good!) as well as cell calls for emergency or when i'm out of home if i am missing him too much (way too expensive) and of course free yahoo calls every day pretty much 16+hours a day on days i'm home (ok we are weird but soemtimes we even nap "together" we cant stand to be apart!) and some days less if we're fussing or are outside home.

thankfully i have multiple computers/laptops and can set him up wherever i am in house and we spend time together like that... he uses bluetooth on his end so he also isnt tethered to computer. most days it's like he is right here except he just isnt

anyway, we have no plane ticket stubs, no pictures together (neither of us are wild about photos in first place so wouldnt have any, or many, even if i were there)... neither of us have many photos in general!

he is part of our every day life, he guides and counsels our child (my child from previous marriage, divorced in 2003) and he is such a support to me daily.

his tourist visa was denied last year, to come see me in person before we married, and i cannot travel there due to health issues (although if i could have i dont think it proper for me to travel there alone before we were married but at this time i would travel there alone if i had the finances and health!)

it kills me to think that this might mess up our immigration visa because we've never been physically together yet . it was a sacrifice we were willing to make but now i am so afraid this will cause a denial!

i DO have a letter from my doctor stating i cannot travel (written last year and could get an updated one for this year if needed) and he has the visa denial (they didnt believe he had enough holding him there to return to Pakistan after the visit but he would not have risked his education when he only had less than a year to go!!)...

would that be sufficient 'proof' to them why we have not been to each other's countries?

`

if you have any other ideas of things we could use as proof of marriage/ongoing relationship... we have our feelings but those cant be shown on paper

You know what...maybe Im old and have a bit of logical wisdom...and maybe Im just still shaking my head over things that happen in this world but at the end of the day....I worry about young men and young women throwing their lives away over some one they havnt met, someone that they only see over the internet...understandably the internet is good in one sense....you get to know someones personality through many chats, phone calls are great as someone whispers sweet nothings in your ear...but its not until you get to be next to them....watch them walk around, see how they clean they are...or how dirty they live, meet their friends, their family - let you be part of their lifestyle etc....If you were in control of visa's you would have to use your hunch and your sense and some times making decisions about who goes and who doesnt is protect the person leaving and the US Citizen....

Im about to leave my life to migrate to USA and its not a nice feeling....im going to miss so much about my life and I know ill be back to australia but Ive loved this man for so long so I know where I need to be...Ive looked at everything from every angle and made my decision....

Dont make your mind up over someone you havnt spent some face to face time with....read up on long distant relationships via net or via a book and they all say one thing....you put your best side up when your together for the w/end, day, etc...your prospective partner never gets to see your bad side...one day you will get to see his/her bad side...then how will you react.

Right now this partner/spouse of yours is a figment of your imagination...in the sense that you have designed him/her in your mind and in reality....he/she is not like that....so I hope and pray your visa will not be approved to save you and your spouse from doing some thing you may regret....the answer will protect both your lives....

hmmm....married over the phone....I wouldnt mind doing that...then doing a proper ceremony later...

sorry If ive upset you with this...I didnt mean to...but I just want you to have a real relationship...not a cyber one...cos right now...thats all it is...

[nab 74]

You are concerned cause you understand the way this process works, and you understand the reasons why a person ends up having a final interview. Look around you, look at your case and try to answer yourself this question '' any suggestions on what additional things we can show for ongoing relationship?'' WHAT exactly do you have of you and your husband together besides a phone marriage?? What exactly did you do TOGETHER? HOW can a CO see the legitimacy and the ''true big love'' between people that never met?

To answer your question, usually people gather pictures, conversations,plane tickets,gifts receipts,any proof of interaction with the family in law, and there can be many other things.These things are almost inevitable to come out , when a real normal RELATIONSHIP exists.

Good luck to you and please keep us posted, i really wish the best for everyone going thrue this process.

what do we have...? well, we own a house together, we have joint bank and credit card accounts, and joint bills. he doesnt drive, only rides motorcycle, and the motorcycle we have here is dirtbike so not necessary for title or license. so no vehicles in his name, only mine. i had all of them before i met him.

as for pictures, i guess we are just odd but neither of us are big picture hounds so after all these years i dont have many pictures of me and same for him... guess it's just the way we were reared. i have ONE baby picture, ONE picture at about 2yo, my aunt not long ago sent me one she came across of me with her daughter at about 1.5 or almost 2. it's just the way it is. my first marriage i have no pictures of wedding and never even gave it thought till now ... i just was never one of those girls i didnt need pics to remember what my dress looked like guess i'm strange. for me its about the marriage, not the party.

and conversations? we talk together more than any couple i've ever known, we know each other up and down, inside and out. sometimes i believe i know him better than he knows himself

but on a serious note, when you have to communicate like we do instead of being able to hide things "in a normal relationship", it forces you to get to know the other person on a much deeper level. anyway...

no plane tickets but we can show valid reasons "why" there have been no visits.

i dont think either of us have the receipts for the gifts we've sent back and forth (i might still have the credit card statements itemizing the charges though) but very possible we still have proof of mailings.... he just said he has his, IDK where mine are or if they are still here.

no "proof" of interaction with in-laws other than our call logs (we are connected almost round the clock), though not for long periods of time with them because of the language barrier. they also love their grandson and send him gifts, as well as sending me gifts. the uncles, my husband's brothers, have sent gifts as well.

i've been a military wife and actually this is more a "real normal RELATIONSHIP" (to quote you) than that felt because there was NO communication, love, kindness, loyalty, respect, in THAT "real normal RELATIONSHIP".

and as for "consumation" well that's soemthing that has to wait till we are together but that one area doesnt make our relationship any less real than someone who is away from home for whatever reason and not having relations with each other (usually they're doing it with others! no loyalty, no trust; IMHO that does NOT make a "real relationship" just becasue they've been intinmate at one time with each other).

We DO have that love, respect, loyalty, trust that every "real" relationship SHOULD have but is usually lacking in most. to be this far away from each other requires loyalty and trust. and to spend as much time with each other like we do requires love and respect... to be gentle, loving, and kind to each other every day is my goal because i never want to see him sad, nor does he ever want to see me unhappy. He is GOD's gift to ME, this IS a REAL relationship, whether he is sitting right here beside me as we watch a movie together or we are thousands of miles away from each other while we watch the same movie together on separate screens... whether we are cooking in two separate kitchens, but doing it together... feeding the animals and so on.

i dont know, guess no one "gets it" if they've never experienced it.

thanks for your post, it made me think of other things we can list. sometimes we just need a soundingboard to bounce our thoughts off of so we can get off our one track mind and think outside the box. neither he nor i have been through this before and though we have spoken to lawyers (on his side and mine) we didnt get into every little supporting document we would need for the process, just the forms to file. over here the lawyer said best is DCF but if i couldnt travel then we should do K3 and over there they said to do CR1. and so here we are.

for those off topic posts referring to "proxy marriage" (where someone stands in for one of the people), that doesnt apply to us. no one "stood in" for either of us, we both signed, just like i would have if i were there - after him; i just did it after it got here in mail.

and JFTR, our marriage IS recognized in the USA. but thanks for your concern.

I have spoken with USCIS regarding this and they say it is not a problem, the problem is to make certain i have plenty of supporting documentation and under "J. Any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union." for me that wasnt clear exactly what i would need and that's what i was asking for from fellow VJers. Thanks to those who were helpful in that. i feel confident again now that i have spoken to USCIS again tonight when i gave them list of things we have

thanks Hannah for the medical docs suggestion, i should get idea of what they will be looking for and supply exactly that becasue to expect them to read through REAMS of papers would be frustrating for them, that's why i was going to simply supply dr letter. but if i can give them exactly what they need without them having to dig for it would be so much better.

[belinda63 3,038]

I hope all works out for you but don't be surprised if the I-130 is denied. This is straight from the instructions for the form.

Who May Not File Form I-130?

4. A husband or wife, if you and your spouse were not both physically present at the marriage ceremony, and the marriage was not consummated.

Source

Please keep up posted at to what happens.

[moroccogirlny 100]

"yes, we ARE legally married. his mother suggested it when his visa was denied; surprised me too (pleasantly) to find out we could do that."

Sorry to be blunt here but that's a BIG RED FLAG

There was a similar case a few years back here on VJ and the couple got denied.

Good luck!

[Penny Lane 8,159]

People here are just trying to help you and to prepare for what's to come, which is a guaranteed denial. It isn't us judging the way you got married, or your relationship, it's telling you what a marriage is by their definition. If you were not present at your marriage or it has not since been consummated, you will NOT get a visa. You're being incredibly rude, when people are attempting to tell you the TRUTH. Not their opinion, but FACTS.

[lynJer 7]

you make a lot of ASSumptions in your post but maybe the first bolded line says why...? perhaps you have doubts in your relationship, but please dont project those onto us becasue we do not have doubts about belonging together. I am not "young" nor am i stupid...

as for the second bolded statement, well ma'am, that was just plain evil of you.

so exactly what IS a "proper ceremony"... done in YOUR religion's way because that is the only way? amazingly enough many people get married every day without ""ceremony" or co-mingling of the sexes. welcome to the real world... maybe YOU should read up on it.

Perhaps the real world would suit you better if you migrate to pakistan together...it might be a lot easier...

[mari&Ryan 93]

I have spoken with USCIS regarding this and they say it is not a problem, the problem is to make certain i have plenty of supporting documentation and under "J. Any other relevant documentation to establish that there is an ongoing marital union." for me that wasnt clear exactly what i would need and that's what i was asking for from fellow VJers. Thanks to those who were helpful in that. i feel confident again now that i have spoken to USCIS again tonight when i gave them list of things we have

"There's none so blind as he who will not see."

[Prawninator 138]

nab, I think you kinda missed the point of lynJer's entire post. Also nowhere in her post did she mention religion, so why bring that up?

[Ihavequestions 419]

"There's none so blind as he who will not see."

This whole saga is full of it - everything from not being allowed to attend her own wedding (because it was at a mosque?) to her husband destroying the only pictures of the event to signing her marriage contract (which was probably in Urdu) after it was mailed to her (without witnesses to attest to her signature?) to USCIS (a/k/a The Dis-Information Line) agreeing with her.

You can lead a horse to water...

[Iqha 0]

Well the reality is: you haven't seen each in person and for legal marriage, bboth parties must be present in the same place at the same time in front of the official. The marriage has to have been consummated and it will be considered invalid in States.

Now I can understand about Nikah over the phone but you have to understand other countries' law. We are not doubting your love is not geninue, but facts are front of you. I have a question though: Is your marriage registered in Pakistan? I am thinking that you won't able to file K1 since you will be considered married in your country and it will create problems at the time of the interview.

[krazykoukides 3]

you make a lot of ASSumptions in your post but maybe the first bolded line says why...? perhaps you have doubts in your relationship, but please dont project those onto us becasue we do not have doubts about belonging together. I am not "young" nor am i stupid...

as for the second bolded statement, well ma'am, that was just plain evil of you.

so exactly what IS a "proper ceremony"... done in YOUR religion's way because that is the only way? amazingly enough many people get married every day without ""ceremony" or co-mingling of the sexes. welcome to the real world... maybe YOU should read up on it.

Nab,

I understand why you would get defensive with so many members telling you, what you most likely, don't want to hear.

However, you need to recognize what these members are telling you. You need to try and be rational about this and REALLY think about it from the perspective of a consulate officer (or whatever we call them)...

You know what your relationship is. You believe what your relationship is...

however... to any external party, a marriage performed over the phone looks suspicious immediately. Even to those who had their relationship with their spouse start on the internet.

Then add in the fact the two of you have never met. This adds further suspicion.

This sounds like enough for the CO to disapprove your petition for a visa right away, without much thought.

-You have never physically met

-You got married over the phone

-Your husband is from Pakistan. Because of the USA's perspective (and policies), American-Pakistani marriages and visa cases/petitions are handled much more carefully/strictly in the first place.

-Your husband was already denied a tourist visa. Your husband being denied any visa from the USA makes your case even more difficult. Being denied a visa never looks good.

Despite your health condition -- all you have is a suspicious case, yahoo logs, phone logs, a marriage performed via phone, and your word.

Your case just does not look very promising... and willingly denying that is just going to set you up for some disappointment and emotional trauma.

Other members and myself are only trying to help you. Nothing less, nothing more.

I'm sorry for everything you are going through.

-KK

[nab 74]

This whole saga is full of it - everything from not being allowed to attend her own wedding (because it was at a mosque?) to her husband destroying the only pictures of the event to signing her marriage contract (which was probably in Urdu) after it was mailed to her (without witnesses to attest to her signature?) to USCIS (a/k/a The Dis-Information Line) agreeing with her.

You can lead a horse to water...

wow you should really read the thread before posting funny how so many ASSume things not in fact. i'm not going to waste my time responding to those who dont read or make assumptions. if you'd like to ASK a question then do so but dont insert your own assumed "facts" into our case.