why the left hates guns

[Heracles 417]

I know you have trouble actually acknowledging facts... but uh, you can look at Afghanistan and Iraq on any major news networks to see just how this works. You can even check on SkyNews or the BBC if you don't believe American sources.

If that doesn't work for you, read about Somalia. (You can even watch a movie about it. "Black Hawk Down.")

Still not convinced? Check out just about any country in Central America or Africa. Asia has some good spots too. The Philippines, parts of Indonesia, places like East Timor, etc. are all good spots to see militias in action.

Still haven't swayed you? Check out Sri Lanka, Myanmar or Yemen.

Throw a dart at the map, and you're likely to hit a country where a civilian militia or rag-tag army has either usurped or is in the process of overthrowing the federal government of their own country - even though that country has modern weapons.

I took your advice and threw some darts, yet not one landed on a first world country. Anyways, what's your point regarding militias? Or is this another one of those flip-slop between points to confuse people? Sorry, doesn't work with me. Nevertheless, the militias you refer to, just so happen to be located in third world countries. They're also not battling any first world nations.

Who has modern weapons again? Indonesia maybe, with their $4 billion expenditure on Military. Black Hawk Down. ####### Dude um Somalia's total GDP is 1/5th of Australia's military expenditure, I won't even bother mentioning the US's expenditure. Yeah big threat they or their militia is to us.

Yeah, I don't get my news from the slim source of Radicals'R'Us. Therefore, I am not paranoid that I gotta look out for that guvmint rizings.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Heracles

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

Black Hawk Down. ####### Dude um Somalia's total GDP is 1/5th of Australia's military expenditure, I won't even bother mentioning the US's expenditure. Yeah big threat they or their militia is to us.

yet.......somalia ran the us out of the country. i'm so glad you could take part in showing that spending all that money does not ensure victory.

[Atencio 43]

This is 2010, not history. Do you think the US wouldn't clean up Vietnam if the same war happened again? Heck even back then, they had a kill ratio of 20 to 1; which is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Israel also did a pretty good job against Hezbollah recently.

Yeah Israel did as great in their last trip to Lebanon as we are doing in Afghanistan. Wilson is right. You can win military battles against an army but fighting an insurgency is a very different story. We learned that Vietnam, the Soviets learned it in Afghanistan, and we are learning the same hard lessons again.

[Heracles 417]

yet.......somalia ran the us out of the country. i'm so glad you could take part in showing that spending all that money does not ensure victory.

So now you're saying the military you claim to be the best in the world, cannot take on a country of 10 million, that spends a handful of billion GDP.

[Heracles 417]

Yeah Israel did as great in their last trip to Lebanon as we are doing in Afghanistan. Wilson is right. You can win military battles against an army but fighting an insurgency is a very different story. We learned that Vietnam, the Soviets learned it in Afghanistan, and we are learning the same hard lessons again.

Israel had them running for their lives and begging for mercy. Then again, you said you don't give a ####### about the rest of the world, therefore, you would have missed that azz-kicking. That's how it rolls when you fire at will and disregard civilian casualties.

Fighting an insurgency gets difficult, when you are trying to preserve civilian lives. That said, this discussion is about the effectiveness and practicality of a militia armed with guns to take on a modern foreign military. It wasn't some hillbilly militia that took on the Soviets in Afghan, it was the use of surface-to-air weapons. Without them, the Militia of Afghanistan was being crushed, thus, why Wilson provided them with the state-of-the art weapons in the first place.

Vietnam was also 40 years ago, technology has vastly advanced since then.

You guys are grasping for straws to justify the validity of gun ownership in 2010. Word of advice, it's a safer bet to stick to we simply want them, as you cannot possible argue on logic or facts.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Heracles

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

So now you're saying the military you claim to be the best in the world, cannot take on a country of 10 million, that spends a handful of billion GDP.

guerrilla warfare never is easy.

[natty bumppo 297]

So now you're saying the military you claim to be the best in the world, cannot take on a country of 10 million, that spends a handful of billion GDP.

dude ... yor are a self professed militia member (read back one page) ... get over yourself ....

[Heracles 417]

guerrilla warfare never is easy.

No one said it wasn't, however that doesn't change the reality that no armed militia can destroy any modern [first world] army. As such, negating the Guns will protect the country against foreign invaders argument.

Since you guys brought black hawk down into the discussion, did you guys notice how their actions were at the mercy of the UN?

[Atencio 43]

So now you're saying the military you claim to be the best in the world, cannot take on a country of 10 million, that spends a handful of billion GDP.

First off, go watch the History Channel documentary on Black Hawk Down so you can have somewhat of a clue.

Battling guerrillas is not the same as fighting an armed military force. This is important. If you don't understand this there is no point in trying to explain anything else. Sure the U.S. military could have rolled over Mogadishu reducing the city to ashes. That though was the objective of their mission. The military was there to help ensure that Operation Restore Hope was successful in restoring order and that people could eat. The aftermath of the First Battle of Mogadishu was that U.S. forces left and Clinton was so upset about what had happened that he was hesitant to later use combat troops in Rwanda and the splintered Yugoslavia.

On another note I really fail to see how GDP translates into who wins a war? If so then tell me how little Finland beat back Stalin's Red army in WW2?

[Atencio 43]

No one said it wasn't, however that doesn't change the reality that no armed militia can destroy any modern [first world] army. As such, negating the Guns will protect the country against foreign invaders argument.

This is the cause of your confusion. An armed militia does not need to defeat a modern army. They kill a guy here, shoot a guy there. It becomes a war of attrition. Who does the army go after when the militia fades back into the population? Despair soon sets in among the army units. If you get a chance read about the Soviet soldiers experiences in Afghanistan.

Since you guys brought black hawk down into the discussion, did you guys notice how their actions were at the mercy of the UN?

Who's actions? The U.S.?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

The yanks fed our loose women a supply of nylons and not much else.

The Brits BEAT the Germans in the Battle of Britain in 1940 using the Hawker Hurricane and the Supermarine Spitfire - both designed and made in Britain.

The Americans didn't save Britain - we saved ourselves in Autumn 1940 a good 18 months before the the Americans decided to stir themselves. Even then they had the decision forced on them at Pearl Harbour. They would still be dithering on the sidelines had it not been for that.

The Germans gave up trying to invade Britain at that stage (1940) and were then rolled back from Stalingrad by the atheist forces of Russia. 250,000 Germans were killed or captured at Stalingrad alone and 4 thousand got back to Germany.

The swaggering john waynes only made their move when the real fighting was almost over on 6th June 1944. They then used the Poles to mop up western Europe.

Even the Japanese were broken by the British in Burma and at Imphal and Kohima so their oil supplies etc were cut and they were severely weakened.

The Americans have never won a symmetrical war and they never could.

The rest of the world outside the US knows this is the correct version of ww2 and the myth only lives on in the USA

My dad fought from 1939 and got home in 1946 and rolled the Japanese back all the way from the Indian border to Rangoon.

From 1939 to the end of 1941 the Americans quivered behind their own borders and let the Brits fight on alone

That was no problem as they are the greatest country the world has ever known. That's a phrase I borrowed from Mitt Romney - he just got his geography wrong like many Americans

'Is Norway in the north of England too ?'

Looks like I touched a nerve. You and the Aussie amuse me. Yep, you both come from the greatest country on earth but you both live here and whine like little girls everyday. It sucks being you.

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

Looks like I touched a nerve. You and the Aussie amuse me. Yep, you both come from the greatest country on earth but you both live here and whine like little girls everyday. It sucks being you.

i'm confused - one is from australia, the other from the uk. how can that in bold be true then?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

This is 2010, not history. Do you think the US wouldn't clean up Vietnam if the same war happened again? Heck even back then, they had a kill ratio of 20 to 1; which is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Israel also did a pretty good job against Hezbollah recently.

No, I don't think the US could have cleaned up in Vietnam just like we are seeing today in Iraq and Afghanistan. You are occupying and fighting in a country where the people want you out, they're not on our side. We'd need an occupational force 5 times what we have there now, and the insurgent will take their pots shots and kill as many as they can.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

i'm confused - one is from australia, the other from the uk. how can that in bold be true then?

They both think they are the greatest country. But they both live in the greatest country, the US. I think that saywhat and BY are Siamese twins.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Mr Ignorant Bigot at work.

Have you even traveled outside the US? Or was the first time to pick up the mail-order?

:rofl: :rofl: The king of the racists calls me a bigot. :rofl:

You are an arrogant bunch.