why the left hates guns

[Heracles 417]

For someone so well informed of modern army capabilities, it's weird that this would've slipped your mind. I'm guessing like most other things.... you had no clue.

So the Unites States was at war with Somalia. I find that funny considering the country has 10 million people and a GDP that is 4 times less than Australia Military expenditure.

Well, so far we've had ZERO.

ZERO.

Care to argue with that?

Don;t know what you are saying there.

I wouldn't expect you -as an Aussie - to understand it. However, the fact that you own a gun (or two) at least lets me know that you're not just a hypocrite, you're a practical hypocrite and as much as you'd like to deny it on the outside, that freedom-loving American deep inside you understands it.

Not hypocritical at all actually. The points I have made still stand, regardless of what I own.

Garys with their guns have defeated every modern army they've ever faced on the battle field. Maybe not Gary personally, but Gary - through supporting his government - has produced the American military which whoops everyone's @$$ it encounters.

So now it's the army and not Garys who defend it. As pointed out by Rob, you like to go back and forth. What are people being transported in? Do you think this invented itself?

Not actual facts.

You mean most of your arguments. I have seen enough posters make statements based on ideological views to know when someone is doing it. As such, you responses regarding civilians and weapons fit this to the tee.

[Captain Oates 911]

suppose the opposing commanders making tactical and strategic errors ... example, poor selection of targets ... had absolutely nothing to do with this

A win is a win. We beat the Germans in the Battle of Britain in Autumn 1940. We licked em decisively and Hitler gave up. We saved ourselves while the Americans dithered for another one and a half years watching from the sidelines. Left us to fend for ourselves.

That period is glossed over in the USA because they know it was a shameful period in time.

They got the proof of their mistake at Pearl Harbor

The Brits should remember that period of time when they give credibility to the American wars of choice all over the world

My granddad was killed in the first war. The Americans were late again. Waiting until it was all over so they could swagger in and claim they won it.

That war wasn't 1917 to 1918, it was 1914 to 1918

[natty bumppo 297]

That war wasn't 1917 to 1918, it was 1914 to 1918

omg ... really ?!?!

[Heracles 417]

That's exactly right. The lesson that history teaches over and over again is that NO ARMY,

no matter how powerful, can fight and win a guerilla war on foreign soil, especially against

a well armed and fanatical militia.

This is 2010, not history. Do you think the US wouldn't clean up Vietnam if the same war happened again? Heck even back then, they had a kill ratio of 20 to 1; which is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Israel also did a pretty good job against Hezbollah recently.

[Heracles 417]

I'll say one thing, the British and the Aussie's have a warped way of looking at things.Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. The arrogance must be a cultural thing.

Mr Ignorant Bigot at work.

Have you even traveled outside the US? Or was the first time to pick up the mail-order?

I thought we were discussing occupation, not mass genocide and destruction - the land becomes unusable

after a nuclear blast, so there's no point in trying to occupy it afterwards.

Hiroshima is fine. The reality is that no militia or foreign 2nd or 3rd world army can stand up to modern weaponry.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Heracles

[Captain Oates 911]

This is 2010, not history. Do you think the US wouldn't clean up Vietnam if the same war happened again? Heck even back then, they had a kill ratio of 20 to 1; which is pretty damn good if you ask me.

Israel also did a pretty good job against Hezbollah recently.

Big heap of kid bodies, women's bodies. Napalm and free fire zones. I mix with Vietnam vets. They told me this week that they killed every living thing in the free fire zones. They even shot babies. The government wanted a body count. The government got a body count

The guy told me that they had a heap of 10,000 bodies and he was vomiting all the time

Edited August 6, 2010 by saywhat

[Captain Oates 911]

omg ... really ?!?!

well that's your vocabulary exhausted...

[Heracles 417]

Many of these die-hards also forget that the only reason the US fended off against the British Empire was because of the assistance from French, Spanish, Dutch. Without their support, the Militia would have been crushed period. Nevertheless, that was a time when you had the most basic rifles and basic cannons. In other words, there is simply no chance any shitty militia can fight and win against an intelligent modern army. To think you can is simply utter idiocy and lunacy.

Plus, there are enough of us normal people here that would take down any attempted militia.

[natty bumppo 297]

well that's your vocabulary exhausted...

guess i better release ... and reset hook

[Captain Oates 911]

Many of these die-hards also forget that the only reason the US fended off against the British Empire was because of the assistance from French, Spanish, Dutch. Without their support, the Militia would have been crushed period. Nevertheless, that was a time when you had the most basic rifles and basic cannons. In other words, there is simply no chance any shitty militia can fight and win against an intelligent modern army. To think you can is simply utter idiocy and lunacy.

Plus, there are enough of us normal people here that would take down any attempted militia.

Also, even at the time of the revolution, only one third of the population (less than one million) were for it. One third were against it and one third were Walmart shoppers.

The activists are always a minority and the rest will not give them support if it goes wrong. 'The people' are not to be counted on in their entirety and these Militia nuts would find themselves isolated PDQ

[natty bumppo 297]

Many of these die-hards also forget that the only reason the US fended off against the British Empire was because of the assistance from French, Spanish, Dutch. Without their support, the Militia would have been crushed period. Nevertheless, that was a time when you had the most basic rifles and basic cannons. In other words, there is simply no chance any shitty militia can fight and win against an intelligent modern army. To think you can is simply utter idiocy and lunacy.

Plus, there are enough of us normal people here that would take down any attempted militia.

you would do it and not let the army?

wait ... you're not the army so that would make you ... a militia?

[Captain Oates 911]

So US Citizens are going to kill members of the US Military and other US Citizens will in turn shoot them to protect the US Military

.. and all the time the illegals will have a grandstand view and drink their Sangria and munch their tacos while they watch it happening - watch los gringos all killing each other in order to prevent black people getting free health care

only in America...

Didn't something similar happen in the 1860's ?

It's not that far fetched then...

Edited August 6, 2010 by saywhat

[Ban Hammer 13,655]

Plus, there are enough of us normal people here that would take down any attempted militia.

with what?

[Captain Oates 911]

with what?

I will be on the winning side

At the moment I am backing the USAF against the Central Washington Republican ladies tea party militia.

They may have hard muffins but a few tons of cluster bombs should match those

Edited August 6, 2010 by saywhat

[slim 1,533]

The swaggering john waynes only made their move when the real fighting was almost over on 6th June 1944. They then used the Poles to mop up western Europe.

Are you familiar with North Africa? Sicily, maybe?

I mean, I'm not trying to give my grand-dad all the credit. Boris and 'nem helped quite a bit too on the Eastern front.

The reality is that no militia or foreign 2nd or 3rd world army can stand up to modern weaponry.

I know you have trouble actually acknowledging facts... but uh, you can look at Afghanistan and Iraq on any major news networks to see just how this works. You can even check on SkyNews or the BBC if you don't believe American sources.

If that doesn't work for you, read about Somalia. (You can even watch a movie about it. "Black Hawk Down.")

Still not convinced? Check out just about any country in Central America or Africa. Asia has some good spots too. The Philippines, parts of Indonesia, places like East Timor, etc. are all good spots to see militias in action.

Still haven't swayed you? Check out Sri Lanka, Myanmar or Yemen.

Throw a dart at the map, and you're likely to hit a country where a civilian militia or rag-tag army has either usurped or is in the process of overthrowing the federal government of their own country - even though that country has modern weapons.

In other words, there is simply no chance any shitty militia can fight and win against an intelligent modern army. To think you can is simply utter idiocy and lunacy.

See above.

Plus, there are enough of us normal people here that would take down any attempted militia.

It's not like HALO.

And when you say "normal" people are you talking about the "I don't own a gun" and/or the "I have a shotgun for duck hunting" crowd? The same folks who are scared to exercise their rights already? Those are the ones who are going to help you against armed people who are shooting?

I realize you know #### about tactical engagements, but common sense and that deductive reasoning you talked about earlier ought to tell you your two pistols are going to leave you severely outmatched. Even if there's a group of you with two pistols each... sorry. No chance.

(More of a chance than those with sticks and knives... but still, no chance.)

Also, even at the time of the revolution, only one third of the population (less than one million) were for it. One third were against it and one third were Walmart shoppers.

The activists are always a minority and the rest will not give them support if it goes wrong. 'The people' are not to be counted on in their entirety and these Militia nuts would find themselves isolated PDQ

Chairman Mao crunched the numbers on this subject and it actually takes surprisingly less support than people think. We're so trained here to think of a "majority" as being the winners, but in reality, the active resistance can be super low and still be successful.

So US Citizens are going to kill members of the US Military and other US Citizens will in turn shoot them to protect the US Military

Many of you are still saying the military will be involved. Posse Comitatus specifically prohibits them from doing so except in specific instnaces and I don't know about you guys, but many of the military folks I know are pretty reluctant to police the US.

"But Slim, that doesn't stop the National Guard from being used." You're right, it doesn't. But do you really think guardsmen are going to willfully take up arms against their friends, family and neighbors?

Didn't something similar happen in the 1860's ?

It's not that far fetched then...

It did. However, Posse Comitatus wasn't passed until after the civil war.

Also, during that time, we didn't have the law enforcement or federal agency presence we have today. There was no "jurisdiction" common other than a county sheriff. Today, the fight would be much different, and as such, I don't see it as a "militias vs. military" struggle, I see it as a nationwide, "we're fed up with the FED and we're going to do something about it." In that case, much of LE (and military) would be on board with the militia - even leading them - and it wouldn't be so much of a military force on military force fight, it would be similar to a police action where polling places and govt. operations would be secured to ensure the "new" govt. was able to function.

Those of you who are insinuating nine idiots from Michigan are going to try to overthrow the government and will be leveled by tanks are way, way off. What you're going to see is state and local governments starting to separate and reserve powers from the federal government and it won't come to a head until enough folks finally say, "that's it. We've had enough and we're done with the FED. We're out." So, in that case, it will be similar to the secession of the southern states during the war of northern aggression.

But, it will be completely different too.

At the moment I am backing the USAF against the Central Washington Republican ladies tea party militia.

USAF pilots won't fly their planes if the girls in DC are doing their jobs. A nice warm muffin can keep any man grounded!