Arizona's concealed-weapon law takes effect

[slim 1,530]

So the idea of needing a gun to overthrow a tyrannical government, would not involve some sort of armed confrontation with the military?

How does a government become tyrannical without the support of the military?

yeah yeah yeah Slim. Fact fact fact.

Rubbish.

As you said above, the two are unrelated. You think I'm going to fight the military with my CCW gun? HA!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why would you need it then? How is it going to help you take back the government?

[slim 1,530]

Why would you need it then? How is it going to help you take back the government?

By ensuring I live in a tranquil and peaceful neighborhood. (People who live in nice neighborhoods tend to vote along different lines than those who've traditionally given the country away.)

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Well if we start with murder, The US murder rate is 0.042802 per 1000 The UK murder rate is 0.0140633 per 1000.

That's a pretty sobering stat. Nearly 4 times the number of people are killed in the US than in the UK.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

By ensuring I live in a tranquil and peaceful neighborhood. (People who live in nice neighborhoods tend to vote along different lines than those who've traditionally given the country away.)

I am sure there were plenty of tranquil and peaceful neighbourhoods in Nazi Germany under the Third Reich.

The statement was that Concealed Carry laws are not going to help you take back the country from a tyrannical government.

[IndigoSkies 168]

Gun rights have nothing to do with being more civilized. Gun rights are so the people can be armed against the government. Many seem to forget this.

Being civilised means using words, speech, and eloquence to 'fight' rather than using gun and fist. But this point is moot on you as you seem to be an anarchist or have anarchist tendencies. Are you sure you're not a commie?

[slim 1,530]

Well if we start with murder, The US murder rate is 0.042802 per 1000 The UK murder rate is 0.0140633 per 1000.

That's a pretty sobering stat. Nearly 4 times the number of people are killed in the US than in the UK.

We have many more murders by firearms... but keep digging. I think you'll find the magic number you're looking for if you try. Remember, you said the US has a higher crime rate than most of the developed world. Not true. UK is higher.

I am sure there were plenty of tranquil and peaceful neighbourhoods in Nazi Germany under the Third Reich.

There were. That's how the government changed so rapidly. The fervor before the furer was akin to the "hope and change" we saw recently. Dare I say, the results won't be exactly the same, but they'll be poor, nonetheless.

The statement was that Concealed Carry laws are not going to help you take back the country from a tyrannical government.

Actually, they very well could. Can you imagine living in an urban area with very low crime? I would think somewhere like that woudn't need huge social programs (and subsequent huge social budgets) and would therefore become a community that voted not in terms of "the general welfare" but in terms of what was best for America. The government would change rather quickly.

Being civilised means using words, speech, and eloquence to 'fight' rather than using gun and fist.

It also means having the best fists to back up your eloquent words.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

If you are referring to the whole "violent crime" debate of a few years ago, well that's pretty simple, the UK is a nanny state and declares more crimes as violent than the US.

The only stat that matters to me is the dead, because its well permanent.

[slim 1,530]

The only stat that matters to me is the dead, because its well permanent.

Well then say that next time instead of trying to point out how horrible the US is compared to merry ol' England when, in fact, we have a lower crime rate.

If murder is all you're worried about, using your above numbers, both countries have almost ZERO homicides and to say UK is "safer" because of it is a bold statement. In either country you're very unlikely to be victimized in a murder.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Well then say that next time instead of trying to point out how horrible the US is compared to merry ol' England when, in fact, we have a lower crime rate.

If murder is all you're worried about, using your above numbers, both countries have almost ZERO homicides and to say UK is "safer" because of it is a bold statement. In either country you're very unlikely to be victimized in a murder.

No you miss my point. I said that the specific stat of "violent crime" can not be compared directly unless both systems classify the crimes as the same which they do not.

But its pretty easy to classify something like murder because your either dead or you are alive.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No you miss my point. I said that the specific stat of "violent crime" can not be compared directly unless both systems classify the crimes as the same which they do not.

But its pretty easy to classify something like murder because your either dead or you are alive.

Put it this way - Slim only cares about the figures, not how they were calculated.

[slim 1,530]

No you miss my point. I said that the specific stat of "violent crime" can not be compared directly unless both systems classify the crimes as the same which they do not.

Agreed, but a few posts before that you said US has such a high crime rate. You didn't even know UK has a higher crime rate, did you?

But its pretty easy to classify something like murder because your either dead or you are alive.

Sure. And your point is? If you wanted to compare murder rates you should've said murder rates. You said crime.

Put it this way - Slim only cares about the figures, not how they were calculated.

I figure govt. ministries and agencies have pretty good figuring powers.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Agreed, but a few posts before that you said US has such a high crime rate. You didn't even know UK has a higher crime rate, did you?

Did I?

You said "The UK has a higher crime rate than the US. They don't have guns though so how could that be possible?"

I said "I call BS on that statement"

And it is BS because the UK does allow guns with certain permits. I am a slippery one, and you just used up your 1 in 10,000. Better be right for the next 9999 arguments.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I figure govt. ministries and agencies have pretty good figuring powers.

I'm sure they do. But if you're making the assumption that they have identical methodologies then you're trying to make an argument that is made from straw and fashioned in the shape of a man.

[slim 1,530]

Did I?

You said "The UK has a higher crime rate than the US. They don't have guns though so how could that be possible?"

I said "I call BS on that statement"

And it is BS because the UK does allow guns with certain permits. I am a slippery one, and you just used up your 1 in 10,000. Better be right for the next 9999 arguments.

I was wrong to quote you as saying the crime rates in the US were higher, however, it was Heracles' statement on page one that my statement was made in response to. You only called BS (which I assumed was also based on Heracles' statement.) I incorrectly quoted you. Apologies.

However, your call of BS is incorrect. UK doesn't have guns as referenced in this story so claims of a higher crime rate in the US - because of concealed carry guns - is comepletely bogus, especially when the UK, in fact, has a higher crime rate.

Almost got me. I was wrong to quote you though and I did post that you'd just said that so I guess, technically, I need to be on my game for the next 9999 posts.

I'm sure they do. But if you're making the assumption that they have identical methodologies then you're trying to make an argument that is made from straw and fashioned in the shape of a man.

Who made that assumption or assertion? Man, you sure like that man made of straw!