Breaking: Judge grants injunction on most vehemently opposed parts of AZ law!

[Heracles 417]

Identifying yourself to a law officer and presenting an ID are not equal. It's really not difficult to understand the fundamental difference or what kind of civil rights problems exist if a law ever required that you carry on your person, identification 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

A vast amount of people carry some sort of ID when out and about.

As I demonstrated in another thread, there is a a process to all this. Contrary to the usual 1984 fear mongering, this is not some attempt to target brown people. For the majority of people, be it black, white, Hispanic or Asian who have ID on them, this is not an issue whatsoever.

The only time someone will be screened further is when they refuse to cooperate, or no record matches anything they say - including everify checks; which to me is more than fair enough. Anyone naturalized, a PR, a visa holder of any sort is in the system, therefore, will appear in any computerized checks conducted along with the usual checks police make, such as checks for outstanding warrants and so forth.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Heracles

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Being asked to identify yourself when interacting with law enforcement or any government agency is hardly draconian. It's actually common practice in most civilized first world countries, particularly those that rank higher than you in terms of both freedom and Q.O.L.

Steve is for open borders so I wonder why he locks his dead bolt every night.

[Heracles 417]

Steve is for open borders so I wonder why he locks his dead bolt every night.

What Steven does is because groups like FAIR and so forth might support this for their own reasons, he automatically invalidates the opinions or logic of others and assumes we too must all just hate immigrants or brown people.

It's also funny to me that he supports the worker but also supports the exact thing that is driving wages into the ground. Furthermore, refuses to ponder why every other country with a high standard of living for all workers, coincidentally have diametrically opposing views to his own on border and immigration. Maybe they're all racist too..

My family is in construction in AUS. The ongoing joke is that I send illegals to AUS so they too can pay blue-collar workers $10 per hour, rather than the market rate of $25 to $50 paid there to residents. I wonder why the rate would be so high there versus here? Quite simply, Supply and Demand. Now what does an endless number of workers do to supply? What does displaced Americans do to demand?

Edited July 28, 2010 by Heracles

[one...two...tree 2,762]

A vast amount of people carry some sort of ID when out and about.

As I demonstrated in another thread, there is a a process to all this. Contrary to the usual 1984 fear mongering, this is not some attempt to target brown people. For the majority of people, be it black, white, Hispanic or Asian who have ID on them, this is not an issue whatsoever.

The only time someone will be screened further is when they refuse to cooperate, or no record matches anything they say - including everify checks; which to me is more than fair enough. Anyone naturalized, a PR, a visa holder of any sort is in the system, therefore, will appear in any computerized checks conducted along with the usual checks police make, such as checks for outstanding warrants and so forth.

For those of us who actually love the U.S. Constitution and all that stands for, we care about the encroachment of our civil rights.

As for what the Judge blocked: Under SB1070, a local law officer was given authority to ask for papers of anyone in a car during a routine traffic stop, if they suspected any or all of the passengers were illegal. All the police need is suspicion, according to SB1070.

[dluke77 9]

Apologize if I misread or misspoke on something and will search again for it--but I thought if you were a legal resident you were required to carry your green card on you?

If you are a citizen and identify yourself to the officer by name, when you witness a crime, are victim of a crime, or commit a crime... how does that violate civil rights?

It is fairly obvious that most of the nay-sayers about this Arizona law are those, perhaps here legally, but that support, encourage, or help family members, friends, and others to come here and stay illegally.

National ID Card act didn't go down in flames it is still smoldering and will probably ignite if the Arizona law gets broken up.

Don't see why someone couldn't just take pride in carrying an ID Card that identifys them as a citizen or resident of the greatest country ever to exist on the planet.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Seriously, who didn't see this injunction coming? You know that this is going to get fast-tracked to the SCOTUS, and that makes sense. You know whatever ruling the lower courts made that this would get appealed and end up there anyways.

[Ban Hammer 13,469]

A vast amount of people carry some sort of ID when out and about.

just opening my wallet, i have 4 forms of legal id, 2 federal government issued, 2 state issued.

[Heracles 417]

For those of us who actually love the U.S. Constitution and all that stands for, we care about the encroachment of our civil rights.

You are right. I am more interested in points like Q.O.L, opportunity and safety that actually affect our daily, than arguing the technicalities of a document written over 200 years ago.

Personally, I want to see the 60,000,000 Americans living in poverty get on their feet, than see illegal aliens earn or use a single dollar on US soil. But hey that is me and probably the rest of the first world.

The issue here is not rights or discrimination, it's that you have no problem with open borders.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Heracles

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Apologize if I misread or misspoke on something and will search again for it--but I thought if you were a legal resident you were required to carry your green card on you?

If you are a citizen and identify yourself to the officer by name, when you witness a crime, are victim of a crime, or commit a crime... how does that violate civil rights?

It is fairly obvious that most of the nay-sayers about this Arizona law are those, perhaps here legally, but that support, encourage, or help family members, friends, and others to come here and stay illegally.

National ID Card act didn't go down in flames it is still smoldering and will probably ignite if the Arizona law gets broken up.

Don't see why someone couldn't just take pride in carrying an ID Card that identifys them as a citizen or resident of the greatest country ever to exist on the planet.

What makes this country great is our beloved U.S. Constitution, which protects its citizens from being unreasonably harassed by law enforcement. If you go jogging (which I'm guessing most here do not), you don't need to carry ID. If you are walking about, you don't need ID. If you are taking a shower at the local gym with a bunch of sweaty guys, you don't need to have your ID taped to your flabby chest. This is America, dammit! The the land of the free and the brave!

[dluke77 9]

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070h.pdf

Good link to the law. Don't honestly see what is wrong with it. States right in there that verification must be received that someone is illegal before being carted off.

[Heracles 417]

What makes this country great is our beloved U.S. Constitution, which protects its citizens from being unreasonably harassed by law enforcement. If you go jogging (which I'm guessing most here do not), you don't need to carry ID. If you are walking about, you don't need ID. If you are taking a shower at the local gym with a bunch of sweaty guys, you don't need to have your ID taped to your flabby chest. This is America, dammit! The the land of the free and the brave!

People on jogs don't get asked for ID, particularly for no reason. Furthermore, you know first hand that some scumbag lib lawyer or the ACLU would be waiting to sue the country blind if this did happen. On a side note, I don't know about you but I personally wouldn't jog along the AZ border nor in the cancerous desert heat.

The reality is that the majority of citizens will have some sort of id or be in some computerized system. Naturalized citizens are super-easy to verify as they are in federal systems. Once again, fear mongers refuse to analyze the norm and pick the extreme case and use it to make a point. You realize there is a reason why it's called the extreme.

[^_^ 5,021]

... refuse to analyze the norm and pick the extreme case and use it to make a point.

Laws need to be fair to everyone, not just people who are 'average' and 'typical'.

[mawilson 2,133]

Can they just say "yeah whatever feds" and keep doing what they're doing?

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Please stop with the insults and snide comments. Disagree about the issue but don't take your disagreement out on the person expressing their opinion.

[slim 1,530]

People on jogs don't get asked for ID,

Not if they're white.