Anyone feel like they've made a huge mistake?

[ashenflowers 5]

I should probably caveat that most of my references to "Ontario" really were focussed on the GTA only, although some parts do carry into the rest of the province, like the weather, and traffic hehe.

Im positive that most of the bad stuff was a result of being where I was, at times it seemed to me Toronto and the area were trying to match the stereotypes of the worst things you only hear about US cities.

I will admit, I was completely shocked at how diffrent the 2 provinces were, i was unprepared, and it put me in an awful spot. Never in a million years would I have felt so much like I was alone and unsupported while still in Canada

hahah yeah the weather and traffic in Ontario is poop all around (but still traffic is extra nasty in T.O... I have friends from elsewhere in Ontario who refuse to drive in Toronto. lol)

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I used to hate to drive in Toronto. Toronto was for visiting if you wanted to go to the Museums or some shopping - it wasn't for 'living' (not meaning to offend anyone who did live in GTA, btw). I did two internships in Toronto and yeah, it is definitely a different experience than the rest of Ontario. Kingston is my home town even though I was born in Montreal and lived a good many years in Southern Ontario (St. Catharines and Chatham). I still feel like I am 'coming home' when I visit Kingston and would love to live in my old apartment (built 1828 as the First Bank of Upper Canada) overlooking the downtown market, City Hall and Confederation Basin. It was a whole 'lifestyle' and one that agreed with me.

I moved a number of times in my adult life for employment and each time I moved to a new city (there are only so many jobs for museum curators in any one city), I went through being homesick for the familiarity of my former home. When I first moved to Georgia, though, I wasn't homesick and I am still not really what I would call 'homesick'. It is not so much the loss of my 'home' I mourn, but my sense of self.

I love the natural beauty here - it is indeed a feast for my eyes - and I have to pinch myself at times to realize that I really am living here. It isn't the obvious things that are a problem but the subtler ones - the ones that grow in your realization over time when you begin to understand that the 'ideology' and the 'culture' are alien to your way of thinking. There is a comfort level of 'beingness' that I have not been able to find here; of being at home in my own skin, so to speak. That is what I miss. My circumstances are such that provide me with the opportunities to compare what my life is like here to what my life was like in Canada, the person I am now to the person I was in Canada. Part of the situation is the relationship itself, part of the situation is where I am living, and part of the situation is the realities of day to day life in the Southern US. As was mentioned above, Canadians are expected to adapt so easily because - superficially at least - Canada and the US seem very much the same. We even expect this of ourselves so it takes us by surprise when these 'other' unexpected reactions and emotions raise their heads. I have been here over 6 years now and and find myself wondering 'who' I would be if I were still in Canada. I suspect I would be a happier, more secure and more confident woman than I am now. I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

But anyway, yeah - I hear you about Toronto:D .

Edited August 4, 2010 by Kathryn41

[SupportGeek 21]

It isn't the obvious things that are a problem but the subtler ones - the ones that grow in your realization over time when you begin to understand that the 'ideology' and the 'culture' are alien to your way of thinking.

I wanted to quote this, because while the obvious differences factored into my feelings, this was also a factor in why I wasnt comfortable, Toronto and area are in general, pretty darn conservative, the attitudes, the thinking, its all very different from what I came from in the lower mainland, I could never adjust, the whole environment already changed me, I felt, for lack of a better term... poisoned.

I felt like I was angry all the time, stressed for no reason, and I had no real idea why.

I had changed for the poorer enough because of where I was, if I had fully integrated, I dont think I would have been me at all anymore.

[ashenflowers 5]

I wanted to quote this, because while the obvious differences factored into my feelings, this was also a factor in why I wasnt comfortable, Toronto and area are in general, pretty darn conservative, the attitudes, the thinking, its all very different from what I came from in the lower mainland, I could never adjust, the whole environment already changed me, I felt, for lack of a better term... poisoned.

I felt like I was angry all the time, stressed for no reason, and I had no real idea why.

I had changed for the poorer enough because of where I was, if I had fully integrated, I dont think I would have been me at all anymore.

This is how I am feeling here, except I generally know why. It's at a point already after only 7 months that my husband doesn't believe when I'm mad at him I'm actually mad at HIM sometimes. lol He always just thinks I'm mad at everything else and taking it out on him, which isn't always the case. But, if it's bad enough to make him feel that way, then it's bad enough.

Edited August 4, 2010 by ashenflowers

[Sprailenes 47]

I looove Toronto. Born and raised there though. But I know so many people who hate it. I can totally understand why and it is a lot different than any other city in Canada. I can see that, the people are a little more pushy and rude there, they think they're the center of the Universe. A lot of people in western Canada call Ontario - Onterrible, and make fun of Toronto. When I worked at the Fairmont in Lake Louise for a summer - I always got told about how much Ontario and Toronto sucked. Good times.

[NBtoPitt 2]

I can understand some of the feelings on here, and especially the feelings of the original poster. Before I met my husband, I had my life planned out for the next 5+ years. I was going to continue my education, move to Montreal (my favourite city), have a career, buy a chic loft, etc. After meeting my husband some of my goals changed naturally and for completely unrelated reasons, like wanting to live somewhere more in tune with my affinity for the outdoors and trading in a high-powered career for teaching (something I've felt for a long time is what I really want to do).

Now, though, I know I probably won't be able to do even that. We're moving to Pittsburgh for my husband's school, I'll have to work a job I don't like that pays well to support us, buying property seems unlikely, kids aren't feasible for years, there's no way I can teach (both because I can' afford the extra year of school and because I probably need a higher paying job), and after thinking about all of that for a while it leaves me feeling so bleak and empty that I start to mope about the loss of friends, family, and how expensive and scary the healthcare system will be for a type 1 diabetic like myself.

At the end of the day, though, I know that my mind is probably overexaggerating. We have lots of years left to build a life, and I'll make new friends and still be able to visit all the old ones. And as others have said, no matter what it will be worth it. You make sacrifices for the people you love, and this is just one of many in the years to come. I'd rather make these sacrifices than have no one to make them for.

[Veronik 19]

I've been reading this post with much interest, and I agree with a lot of what the original poster. I haven't moved here definitely yet,but spent 6 months last summer and just spent 6 weeks now (leaving for interview on Friday).

What has been the hardest for me here, is how women are treated, both by men and by other women. I don't know how to explain it, maybe being from Quebec, where people are generally liberal and open, I feel like women are objectified here, and it's making me very nervous.

I love the area where I'll be moving though, it's pretty secluded and makes me feel like I live in the woods, so I like that. But as soon as we go out for various reasons, I get irritated pretty fast (really, taking you kids for lunch at Hooters?!?)

Anyways, just thought I'd share!

[SapphireDreams 71]

I've been meaning to respond to this, but haven't had a chance. While I don't think that moving was a mistake for me at all, I do struggle with a loss of independence and set backs in my career that have come from moving and getting married. I have realized now that I am no longer that single, independent, extremely career motivated person that I used to be. Sometimes I even still go through phases where I become selfish and work late a ton and focus far too much energy on my work and not enough on my husband and marriage. I truly believe that we give up a part of who we are to become a family with our spouses. And, I don't think there is anything wrong with it and I actually thing its an amazing thing and have learned to embrace the experience and my new self. I wouldn't give up my love, intimacy and the best friend I've acquired through my husband. That being said, I know that I do need to keep a part of who I used to be within this new me in order to keep my sanity and happiness here. I still have career aspirations, but they are no longer what they used to be. I used to want to be a Vice President or Director of a company in my field. But, now I know that there is now way that I could possibly do this, which maintaining a healthy marriage. I'm sure some people can do it, but I just know I would never be able to handle it. Now, my goal is to make it manager level and have a beautiful family.

I guess what I'm getting at is that before marriage I truly believed I could keep MY dreams the same and have it all. But, I know now that it's not that realistic and have had to make sacrifices and changes. When people say things like 'I married too young' I can totally see what they mean now. I'm lucky that I finished school and began my career before I got married, because things are never the same after marriage. It's not just one person's life, but now two and that complicates everything. I love my husband, but there are just certain things you give up when you get married. People may disagree with me, but it's what I feel.

Throw depression and regret into the mix and things need to change or they will continue to spiral out of control. There was a time in my life when I moved from the GTA to Waterloo for school. I actually HATED it so much. I had no friends, no one I could relate with (people judged me for being from the GTA, thought I was a snob, which I'm not, but people will generalize so there was nothing I could do), I felt angry all the time. Anyways, I was extremely unhappy and became depressed. I realized though, before it spiraled out of control, that the only way things would get better is if I took control of the situation and figured out why I was feeling that that. Because on the surface I was unhappy because I had no friends and didn't like the city I was in at all. But it stemmed deeper than that. I went and saw a psychologist who helped me dig a bit deeper and made me realized that I wasn't depressed because I had no friends or because I hated the city. I was depressed because I had no real support system or purpose where I was. I immediately took action and transferred to a school in the GTA and took the next year to live at home and sort through my need for suport and figure out what my real purpose was. And you know what after some time, I recognized that my support system will always be my Mother and my boyfriend (now husband) she they will both be there for my no matter where I am. I also realized that my purpose in life was to be at the school in Waterloo, so I decided to go back and finish what I started there.

So now that I've rambled away my life story, I think my point is that sometimes in order to take control of the situtation and just be happy, we need to take a step back, dig deeper and really find our purpose in life and take the necessary steps to make it happen. I will say that I spent a lot of additional money to transfer schools TWICE. I lost credits, I had to re-take a class, I even had to take summer school to catch up. I am in deeper debt than I intended. It wasn't easy and it's still not easy paying off my mistakes from back then. But, I knew it was for the best and it was. Feeling in control made it all worth it and made me so much stronger. I realized through it all though is that it didn't matter where I lived, it wasn't the place that was the issue... it was me. So that's why I've moved to NYC with open arms and an open heart and just take control of what I can and not worry about things I can't control. People are rude in NYC, the city is dirty, but I don't let any of that phase me. I am polite to everyone, I embrace the city, the people and just enjoy it. It's no Canada and never will be, but it's my home now and I've realized I can either embrace or be miserable. And, I don't want to be miserable again!

Gal - you have sacrificed so much for your husband. It sounds like moving to Montreal is most likely out of the question, but why can't you still go back to school for theatre related design or something within the state? Sure it'll never be that special program, but who cares? I wanted to go to NYU, but I didn't and I'm still passionate about my career. There has got to be more options out there. I don't know what town you live in Texas, but there are some pretty awesome cities in Texas that have great culture - Austin, Dallas. I know you have loyalties to your husband, but maybe there is a way that you can make it work and be happy again. Good luck to you and I hope you can talks things through with someone and figure things out.

Good luck to everyone who is still finding their place <3

[Gemmie 142]

It will come to an end, I promise you it will. I was unemployed and living with my inlaws for over 8 months when I first came to the US. It was a hard road at first, but It really seemed like everything came together all at the same time. My husband was offered a big role in a new business venture, which forced us to another city. Well, moving from big town Denver to a smaller city meant we could actually afford to buy our own home, even just on his moderate income. Shortly after we moved in I got a job that I really enjoy. I recently bought my first new car, which I'm rather proud of, it's something I've never had before. In the course of a month I went from living with my in laws, unemployed and bored out of my mind, to a homeowner with a good job and a new car. I still can't believe all that happened in such a short period of time.

Thanks. I know exactly what you mean about it only taking one thing and then the rest will snowball into place. I thought I had cracked it when I was offered the job with the psychiatrist in May and couldn't believe how happy I felt. That meant we could move out, I could buy a car, I'm getting experience for grad school, etc. When it all fell apart, I felt even worse than before. I'm so glad that things worked out for you, I remember how miserable you were at that time. It gives hope to those of us that are waiting for it to strike.

Gemmie, can you put a lock on the door?

It's never been discussed, but seeing as they usually knock, it will seem odd if we suddenly ask their permission to get a lock. They have told me that I don't need to stay cooped in the bedroom all day, but for some reason I can't integrate fully. They're home every day. Recently the grandfather has been staying with us for 3 days a week because they can't afford a nursing home, and my FIL's boss has also been spending a couple of days a week here so they can work and discuss things. My MIL, FIL, FIL's boss, grandfather-in-law... it just feels too crowded, you know? Especially when I don't have my own car to get away from it all. So I end up staying in the bedroom all day with the dog, sending off job applications from the computer.

I felt like I was angry all the time, stressed for no reason, and I had no real idea why.

I had changed for the poorer enough because of where I was, if I had fully integrated, I dont think I would have been me at all anymore.

This quote rings true for me as well. Monday is usually the day I get angry for no reason, and we decided it was probably because after spending some time together, I'm dropped in the shiz again. Luckily we have a strong marriage and we always manage to talk it out and come back to the realisation that it's the situation that brings this out.

I also agree that Canada/England are different from the US in very subtle ways, but you don't really notice them until you're facing it head on. The words are different, the ideologies are different. I feel like I can't say anything that might be taken as liberal because people around me fear 'socialist countries'. The other day I told my FIL that in England parents were paid a certain welfare if they were poor and their children were in full-time college (ages 16-19). He just laughed and said something like "I don't understand anything about that country". Another time I told my in-laws that in England people that were unable to work due to caring for an ill family member were paid a carer's allowance. Nobody said anything, so I made a joke about how "well we are a bunch of communists after all.." and my FIL said "well I wouldn't say you were communist. I've heard a LOT of things about England... SOCIALIST, maybe...". A few weeks ago we were at a party and someone asked me if people in England get tired of having a Queen and not a "proper government". When I first got here, I was told not to swear when I said that something "sucked" so I've filtered out some words I was used to saying. It does wear on you when everyone around you holds different values.

Anyway, Sapphire, you give some really good advice there. Often times, I think people don't realise that there is a deeper reason for their unhappiness beyond just not having a car or friends. I know that mine comes from a total transition from an independent life (I lived in a gorgeous city with two friends, went to school, traveled to my family often, had my own money. I know that unless I get that independence back, it will spiral out of control, and it's important to remember that as much as we want to make our spouses happy, we have to do things for ourselves as well.

[SpiritAlight 1]

Hello Wonder-Full VJers,

Without having read all the pages here, I'm diving in with some more words.

Here's something I have learnt.

As a stubborn, opinionated first born sister, my path has been to carve my own way and not ask for advice; at least not often enough.

Although I am all that and more, these words of wisdom have been tested over many many years:

There is no such thing as a mistake.

Every situation, every thing is simply an experience.

It is up to the individual to choose their attitude and how they will react (or not) to something happening.

Depression over loss of all things known, needs not meds, it needs TLC , it needs fun , it needs activity, it mostly needs this:

to be extra gentle with the self.

Do things for yourself consciously and deliberately...even if it's the tiniest thing...like a cup of tea, or have an artist date with yourself.

Being away from your close friends and family and feeling your support network dissolve, is the hardest thing to go through.

Find/make/create new community...this is most important.

This takes a huge effort, and the "pay off" is grrrreat!

Am I on my high horse?

Hahaha!

My intention is not to preach or wag a finger.

I have sat in such depths of despair and sadness and anger and and and...I have gone deep into self inquiry.

My ever growing self-awareness then resonates outwards and I see the world quite clearly.

Yoga and walks in nature have helped me heal myself.

I'm far from totally there and may never be.

Who cares.

That's not the point.

The point is this:

there are moments of such joy and the knowing that one cannot keep it.

It is elusive.

Enjoy what you can when you can and know that when a "bad" (challenging) wave hits, it can roll over you if you "soften".

Impermanence.

That is a given.

There is truly no such thing as right and wrong in so many instances...all of it is subjective.

The filters we each look through. Your life's experience colours every thing.

Well, enough for now.

I wish you all are well in your worlds.

Spirit

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Wise and positive words - thank you for the uplifting attitude!

Hello Wonder-Full VJers,

Without having read all the pages here, I'm diving in with some more words.

Here's something I have learnt.

As a stubborn, opinionated first born sister, my path has been to carve my own way and not ask for advice; at least not often enough.

Although I am all that and more, these words of wisdom have been tested over many many years:

There is no such thing as a mistake.

Every situation, every thing is simply an experience.

It is up to the individual to choose their attitude and how they will react (or not) to something happening.

Depression over loss of all things known, needs not meds, it needs TLC , it needs fun , it needs activity, it mostly needs this:

to be extra gentle with the self.

Do things for yourself consciously and deliberately...even if it's the tiniest thing...like a cup of tea, or have an artist date with yourself.

Being away from your close friends and family and feeling your support network dissolve, is the hardest thing to go through.

Find/make/create new community...this is most important.

This takes a huge effort, and the "pay off" is grrrreat!

Am I on my high horse?

Hahaha!

My intention is not to preach or wag a finger.

I have sat in such depths of despair and sadness and anger and and and...I have gone deep into self inquiry.

My ever growing self-awareness then resonates outwards and I see the world quite clearly.

Yoga and walks in nature have helped me heal myself.

I'm far from totally there and may never be.

Who cares.

That's not the point.

The point is this:

there are moments of such joy and the knowing that one cannot keep it.

It is elusive.

Enjoy what you can when you can and know that when a "bad" (challenging) wave hits, it can roll over you if you "soften".

Impermanence.

That is a given.

There is truly no such thing as right and wrong in so many instances...all of it is subjective.

The filters we each look through. Your life's experience colours every thing.

Well, enough for now.

I wish you all are well in your worlds.

Spirit

[SpiritAlight 1]

Mahalo.

Thank you.

I can never be sure I have taken the right tack if the person I am speaking with is not right in front of me where I can sense them and their heart.

Edited August 4, 2010 by SpiritAlight

[Sprailenes 47]

I don't think ANY of us should be saying whether or not the people in this thread need medications. Those are dangerous waters to tread in. I wouldn't go there, none of us should go there.

Clinical depression is serious and no offense but it takes a little more than TLC, fun and cup of tea to get a clinically depressed person to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Gypsyangel 11]

I used to hate to drive in Toronto. Toronto was for visiting if you wanted to go to the Museums or some shopping - it wasn't for 'living' (not meaning to offend anyone who did live in GTA, btw). I did two internships in Toronto and yeah, it is definitely a different experience than the rest of Ontario. Kingston is my home town even though I was born in Montreal and lived a good many years in Southern Ontario (St. Catharines and Chatham). I still feel like I am 'coming home' when I visit Kingston and would love to live in my old apartment (built 1828 as the First Bank of Upper Canada) overlooking the downtown market, City Hall and Confederation Basin. It was a whole 'lifestyle' and one that agreed with me.

I moved a number of times in my adult life for employment and each time I moved to a new city (there are only so many jobs for museum curators in any one city), I went through being homesick for the familiarity of my former home. When I first moved to Georgia, though, I wasn't homesick and I am still not really what I would call 'homesick'. It is not so much the loss of my 'home' I mourn, but my sense of self.

I love the natural beauty here - it is indeed a feast for my eyes - and I have to pinch myself at times to realize that I really am living here. It isn't the obvious things that are a problem but the subtler ones - the ones that grow in your realization over time when you begin to understand that the 'ideology' and the 'culture' are alien to your way of thinking. There is a comfort level of 'beingness' that I have not been able to find here; of being at home in my own skin, so to speak. That is what I miss. My circumstances are such that provide me with the opportunities to compare what my life is like here to what my life was like in Canada, the person I am now to the person I was in Canada. Part of the situation is the relationship itself, part of the situation is where I am living, and part of the situation is the realities of day to day life in the Southern US. As was mentioned above, Canadians are expected to adapt so easily because - superficially at least - Canada and the US seem very much the same. We even expect this of ourselves so it takes us by surprise when these 'other' unexpected reactions and emotions raise their heads. I have been here over 6 years now and and find myself wondering 'who' I would be if I were still in Canada. I suspect I would be a happier, more secure and more confident woman than I am now. I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

But anyway, yeah - I hear you about Toronto:D .

I lived in Toronto for 25 years and really loved it. Towards the final years, I was ready to live somewhere else, but I miss it terribly sometimes. I liked the idea that you could explore different parts of the city, find so many different cultural influences, easily take a course in pretty much anything, it was easy to take the subway and easy to drive within the city -- I admit that getting in or out is terrible. And, if you're a vegetarian like me, lots of vegetarian restaurants and other vegetarians!

I also lived in Kingston to go to school. A beautiful city. Kathryn, your apartment there sounds wonderful. I really miss my condo in Toronto. I moved so many times within Toronto and I finally found a place that was "perfect". It was hard to leave, but I didn't know how hard it would be. I knew I'd miss it but I didn't think I'd miss it so much. I think I just miss my old life.

On the other hand, I have a lot here too, but it does feel different and it's hard to connect. I've met so many great people and have actually found a couple of amazing friends. But I still feel isolated and without a support system. I thought my husband would be that, but he is not. The thing that resonated with me about your post was the last line ... "and find myself wondering 'who' I would be if I were still in Canada. I suspect I would be a happier, more secure and more confident woman than I am now. I may be wrong, but I don't think so."

That sums up how I feel -- I just didn't know it until I read your words. I took a big financial hit moving here; I'm working but need to make more $$$; we have a nice house, but my husband and I have a hard time living together in it. There are "wifely" expectations, primarily around housework and how I spend my time -- I thought being married would mean it would be easier because we'd share household responsibilities, but I feel like there's more to do because my husband tries to cast me in the role of a traditional wife -- which he knows I'm so not. But he can't seem to help himself. Regarding housework, he likes things a "certain way" and I never live up to his expectations. I also don't really aspire to perfection in that area of my life. It's a constant source of stress between us.

I know there are compromises and that married life is different from single life. I just expected more positive things. Layer onto that, the missing of things that feel like home and feeling so different much of the time, yet still trying to fit in (My FIL, to this day, can not understand that I'm not french. He thinks I'm from Montreal no matter how many times we tell him I'm not he just doesn't get that all Canadians are not french and from Montreal. "Frenchie" is my new nickname.)

I wouldn't say it's a mistake, but it sure is hard.

[Tick Tock 3]

I was from "The City Above Toronto". I took everything for granted and only realize this after moving away. Technically, we were integrated into the GTA, but I did not feel as such living in my old town. I liked getting out into Toronto and am so sad that I did not do it more often. Too much regret though, and that will just bring me down. :\

I can only hope that one day, my husband and I will be able to move into an area that reminds me of the type of town I came from - but is rural enough to sate my husband's desire to not feel smothered with people or neighbours. I'm sure such a place exists, but I doubt we'd be able to afford it.