K2s and SSN

[Yuriy 0]

I know K-2s can't get SSN that authorizes them to work. But from this:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/ss5doc/orichildres.htm

I thought that I could get a SSN with the "valid to work only with DHS authorization" note, if I had a note from a government agency that stated he needed an SSN for their government benefit.

The lady at the SS office thought otherwise.

To quote from the document above:

"Government benefits or services: If your child does not have permission to work, the child may apply for a Social Security number only if:

* A federal law requires your child to provide a Social Security number to get a particular benefit or service; or

* A state or local law requires you to provide your Social Security number to get general assistance benefits that you already have qualified for.

If your child needs a number to meet these state or local requirements, you must bring us a letter from the government agency. It must be on letterhead stationery (no form letters or photocopies) and:

* Specifically identify your child as the applicant;

* Cite the law requiring your child to have a Social Security number;

* Indicate that your child meets all the agency’s requirements, except having the number; and

* Contain an agency contact name and telephone number."

I had a letter. The statements in the document above only make sense if a non-authorized to work non-citizen child should be able to get an SSN for legitimate non-work reason (though only authorized to work with DHS approval, etc.). Where am I wrong?

The lady at the office didn't even know that it was possible for non-work authorized non-citizen children to get an SSN, so I don't really trust her answers.

Thanks if you help!

Yuriy

[payxibka 10,047]

nope, not until the K-2 receives EAD or GC... K-2 is not the same in the SSN world as the K-1

[Yuriy 0]

K-2 is not the same in the SSN world as the K-1

Of course, I know this.

But K-1 doesn't even need a non-work purpose reason, they simply qualify as a K-1, and get the card with a qualifier.

The document I cite states that a not authorized to work non-citizen child CAN get an SSN, for non-work purposes, if he needs it to get a government benefit and can supply a letter from the government agency, issuing such benefit, proving this.

How is K-2 not an example of such a child?

[LiLMermaid 2]

Of course, I know this.

But K-1 doesn't even need a non-work purpose reason, they simply qualify as a K-1, and get the card with a qualifier.

The document I cite states that a not authorized to work non-citizen child CAN get an SSN, for non-work purposes, if he needs it to get a government benefit and can supply a letter from the government agency, issuing such benefit, proving this.

How is K-2 not an example of such a child?

The guide on VJ says different and so does your SSN office. I think I also read it on the SSN instructions.

This is from the VJ guide.

:: For K2, K3, K4 Visa Holders ::

As a holder of a K2, K3 or K4 visa you must first have an EAD from the USCIS. You will be required to

show this to the SSA agency to be eligible to receive a SSN.

For what reason do you need an SSN for a child for immediately anyways?

Of course, I know this.

But K-1 doesn't even need a non-work purpose reason, they simply qualify as a K-1, and get the card with a qualifier.

The document I cite states that a not authorized to work non-citizen child CAN get an SSN, for non-work purposes, if he needs it to get a government benefit and can supply a letter from the government agency, issuing such benefit, proving this.

How is K-2 not an example of such a child?

It says "non-citizen" a K-2 is a non-immigrant visa until the parent marries and applies for AOS.

[Yuriy 0]

The guide on VJ says different and so does your SSN office.

My SSN office says a lot of interesting things, including for example, that you have to be eligible to work to get an SSN (which is just flat out wrong) and a few other things that seem designed to get you away from the window in the most expedient manner. I don't automatically trust entry-level clerks when it comes to complex, nuanced situation.

The VJ guide is not an official document, it is a general generic guide, not designed to be true in every situation and found to have minor errors in the past.

For what reason do you need an SSN for a child for immediately anyways?

Without going into specific private details, precisely for the reasons stated in the document I refer above: to get a government benefit, which requires the recipient to have a SSN. We are not trying to back-road our way into having an SSN, we only want it, because we need it.

It says "non-citizen" a K-2 is a non-immigrant visa until the parent marries and applies for AOS.

That would make sense, except it doesn't say you must be an immigrant. In fact, K-1 is a non-immigrant visa, and the document I mention talks about SSNs for F-1, M-1s, J-1s, etc.

Here again is a link to the document:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/ss5doc/orichildres.htm

And here a couple more, also official SSN

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0110211600

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0110211610

which talks about what aliens, explicitly without work authorization, can do to get a number.

[LiLMermaid 2]

The other visa's that you listed...F-1, J-1 etc..even though are non-immigrant..they ARE allowed to work. K-2's aren't (until they get an EAD) and everything I've read says they specifically can not get a SSN. The document you refer to does not specifically say K-2's are allowed an SSN....it gives a vague example of a child needing a SSN for a gov't benefit. Honestly I cant figure out what gov't benefit a K-2 would even be entitled too. I was under the impression that K-1's and K-2's would not be allowed any type of gov't benefits which is the whole purpose of having a sponsor.

Edited July 28, 2010 by LiLMermaid

[Yuriy 0]

First of, please understand, I am not claiming that you are wrong, as much as that your facts and logic don't yet prove that you are right. I am looking for hard confirmation, that's all.

The other visa's that you listed...F-1, J-1 etc..even though are non-immigrant..they ARE allowed to work.

Yes. However, had the term non-citizen used in the document meant "non-citizen, but immigrant," which is what you suggested a post earlier, the document would hardly have referred to those visas.

K-2's aren't (until they get an EAD) and everything I've read says they specifically can not get a SSN.

I suspect that what you've read is that they aren't authorized to work and unlike K-1s aren't entitled to SSN automatically by visa status.

If you have read anywhere that specifically K-2s can't get an SSN even for qualifying non-work reasons, please direct me to the source in question.

The document you refer to does not specifically say K-2's are allowed an SSN....it gives a vague example of a child needing a SSN for a gov't benefit.

It is actually one of the few concrete things that have been stated, which is the requirements for a non-work authorized aliens to get an SSN for non-work purposes. The question now arises as to why K-2 would not qualify as such a person or in fact whether he does.

Honestly I cant figure out what gov't benefit a K-2 would even be entitled too. I was under the impression that K-1's and K-2's would not be allowed any type of gov't benefits which is the whole purpose of having a sponsor.

(Please note that I don't want to go into specifics, since it has to do with health issues, which I would rather keep private)

But they certainly are allowed to get benefits, just not financial need-based. If, for example, his elementary school decides to give every student a piece of cake or a laptop, but you have to have an SSN, he would be entitled. Or if there is a carbon monoxide leak in our neighborhood, for which the federal government decides to compensate everybody who lives in it.

[I'm Gone 60]

There might be some state program that a K-2 qualifies for that requires an SSN, but I don't know of one.

For an alien that just arrived and is also minor child, chances of the child being assigned a non work authorized SSN are pretty much zero.

If you need a number for filing taxes apply with the IRS for an ITIN. Once the child has an EAD card or I-551 stamp or card, go apply for the SSN.

[payxibka 10,047]

Of course, I know this.

But K-1 doesn't even need a non-work purpose reason, they simply qualify as a K-1, and get the card with a qualifier.

The document I cite states that a not authorized to work non-citizen child CAN get an SSN, for non-work purposes, if he needs it to get a government benefit and can supply a letter from the government agency, issuing such benefit, proving this.

How is K-2 not an example of such a child?

* A federal law requires your child to provide a Social Security number to get a particular benefit or service; or

A k-2 does not need a SSN to GET a particular benefit... if he/she entered as a K-2... he/she already got the benefit...

Edited July 28, 2010 by payxibka

[I'm Gone 60]

* A federal law requires your child to provide a Social Security number to get a particular benefit or service; or

A k-2 does not need a SSN to GET a particular benefit... if he/she entered as a K-2... he/she already got the benefit...

It's federal, state or local law that requires and SSN. Don't know the laws of every state and county in the U.S., so there might be some benefit in some part of the U.S. that would qualify as a valid non work reason, but the ones most people could come up with aren't, for example, school enrollment, health insurance enrollment and tax filing.

RM 10211.600 Requests for an SSN from an Alien without Work Authorization

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0110211600

A. Evidence requirements for obtaining an SSN for nonwork purposes

Evaluate evidence for nonwork SSN applications.

1. Establish a valid nonwork reason

The only valid nonwork reasons are:

-- a Federal statute or regulation requires that the alien provide his or her SSN to get the particular benefit or service to which he or she has otherwise established entitlement; or

-- a State or local law requires the alien who is legally in the U.S. to provide his or her SSN to get public assistance benefits to which the alien has otherwise established entitlement and for which all other requirements have been met.

[Yuriy 0]

I think payxibka thinks the benefit I am referring to is the K-2 visa itself.

I am referring to a particular benefit program. It requires an SSN. I have a letter from them, saying SSN is needed. Are my chances of getting it for my stepson still almost zero?

[I'm Gone 60]

I think payxibka thinks the benefit I am referring to is the K-2 visa itself.

I am referring to a particular benefit program. It requires an SSN. I have a letter from them, saying SSN is needed. Are my chances of getting it for my stepson still almost zero?

Does the letter meet this standard?

The letter from the government entity to document a valid nonwork reason:

-- must not be a generic application, form letter, or a photocopy and must be

dated and on letterhead stationery;

-- must specifically identify the alien, the nonwork reason an SSN is

required, the relevant statute or regulations requiring the SSN as a

condition to receive the benefit or service, and the name and telephone

number of an official to contact so that the information provided may be

verified; and

-- must state that the alien meets all the requirements to receive the benefit

or service, except for an SSN.

RM 10211.600 Requests for an SSN from an Alien without Work Authorization:

http://policy.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0110211600

[Yuriy 0]

Yes.

The SSA office seemed to feel that a K-2 couldn't get an nonwork SSN even with such a letter. They are wrong?

[LiLMermaid 2]

nm

Edited July 29, 2010 by LiLMermaid

[I'm Gone 60]

Yes.

The SSA office seemed to feel that a K-2 couldn't get an nonwork SSN even with such a letter. They are wrong?

Then return to the office with the letter and the child's I-94 and passport and your ID and ask to speak with a manager and direct him or her to that section of POMS.