can I apply for AOS as a Canadian without a visa?

[Simmy 3]

Hello friendly Visa Journey community!

I have what I think is a simple question regarding AOS for Canadians.

I am a Canadian visiting my girlfriend in the U.S. While here, we decided to get married (ie. no prior intent of marriage or immigration, I came to simply visit her).

We're going to have a courthouse wedding this week (with a ceremonial wedding next year).

I was previously planning on immigrating via the CR-1 process, but considering I'm already in the US, I'm wondering if the AOS process is an option for me. I'm not here on any kind of visa -- I'm simply here as a Canadian that didn't need to apply for a visa (nor visa waiver program). So, can I go with the AOS process, and if so, can you think of any reason why I would still choose the CR-1 route (other than being able to go back to Canada)?

Thanks,

Simmy

[LiLMermaid 2]

It is an option, you can apply but they are going to ask the tough questions. You say there is no prior intent but technically...you were already planning on marrying her and have already considered what visa and how to go about it. First you said no prior intention of marriage and then later you say I was planning on applying for Cr-1. You're also going to be sitting around the house for quite awhile waiting for a green card. You won't be able to work, go to school or leave the country. Also there is the possibility of being denied. From what I've read when it comes to doing AOS from a Canadian visitor status is the hardest because we are able to come and go more easily then any other country we get the most scrutiny in these situations. Personally...I didn't risk it. I went home and we applied for K-1.

I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm just saying that its not going to be easy. Also it may be more difficult and more money getting all the required documents that you are going to need from Canada especially since you wont be able to get them in person. Good luck

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

With everything as you've described, yes it's an option for you. Honestly your chances of being successful are pretty good.

On the other hand, if something goes wrong and you do find yourself denied then since you are on VWP your will have no recourse or appeal. A denial could lead to a charge of misrepresentation and a lifetime entry ban which is not waiverable.

Let's say the odds are 99% you'll be fine and 1% you'll be denied, only you can decide if you're willing to take that 1% chance of being banned for life.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Technically yes, you can AOS while in the country. There is of course the issue of intent (and i'm sorry but you PLANNED to get married, you might not have planned to stay when you boarded the plane but you realised it was a possibility) but apparently you won't get asked about that. You WILL have an interview and you WILL need to prove your relationship by co-mingling etc.

The reasons I wouldn't are:

- if denied, no chance of appeal. You would need to return to canada, lose any money you already spent on the process and start from CR-1

- you can't work for 2-3 months (sometimes even longer) and it's not only boring, but a decent financial strain...

- you can still visit the US while doing the CR-1 process (especially easy for a canadian seeing it's a short distance) but you can't go back to Canada until your AOS is complete, or you have an AP document

Honestly, i would do the CR-1 route myself.. especially living in Canada. The reason being visiting your soon-to-be spouse is easy (much easier than I). You can work and save money while waiting for the visa to process. Yes you'll be apart but you can visit like I said. You'll get a greencard as soon as you enter the US and be able to work immediately. It will be much less of a financial strain. You also won't have to pay $1010 for AOS. The CR-1 is the cheaper option honestly.

Up to you though. Even the SMALLEST chance I could be denied, sent home and start from the start would stop me from doing it. I'm sure of my relationship of course, but sometimes the government ... yeah.. they don't make it easy sometimes...

** moved from "Adjustment of Status (Green Card) from Family Based Visas" to "Adjustment of Status from Work, Student, & Tourist Visas" as you are planning on adjusting from a visa other than a K1, K2, K3 & K4 which the prior forum is for**

[Robert B 1]

I don't know how much your girlfriend/fiancée makes a month. In my case I was working and making about $4500 a month, after my OPT ended and we filed for AOS I haven't been able to work or drive or do anything. She doesn't make a whole lot of money, plus the wedding was a bit more expensive than that we hoped. Long story short, we are under major financial stress right now because we lost my income, and she simply doesn't make enough money to cover all the bills. I would only recommend this route if you really have thought about the whole financial situation.

[Kittyfang 6]

On the other hand, if something goes wrong and you do find yourself denied then since you are on VWP your will have no recourse or appeal. A denial could lead to a charge of misrepresentation and a lifetime entry ban which is not waiverable.

Since I had the same thing come up and was corrected, I figured I would correct someone else. Technically, Canada is not on a VWP. I'm not certain what we're on exactly, as far as I can tell, we have our own little agreement.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Kittyfang

[Kittyfang 6]

From what I've read when it comes to doing AOS from a Canadian visitor status is the hardest because we are able to come and go more easily then any other country we get the most scrutiny in these situations.

While I agree that K1 is less risky, I have to say that I have never heard of Canadian AoS being more difficult. I have heard of them being less scrutinized or less denied because Canada is not a high fraud Country, but, the info I looked at was from an overstay point of view, not a visitor wishing to marry while they are within 180 days.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Since I had the same thing come up and was corrected, I figured I would correct someone else. Technically, Canada is not on a VWP. I'm not certain what we're on exactly, as far as I can tell, we have our own little agreement.

Maybe I'm a bit slow today as I can't find ay info on that agreement other than it's not VWP. I wonder if it also has the "No Recourse on denial" clause. It would make sense if it does.

[Kittyfang 6]

Maybe I'm a bit slow today as I can't find ay info on that agreement other than it's not VWP. I wonder if it also has the "No Recourse on denial" clause. It would make sense if it does.

I'm not sure if it does or not. Again, I've always looked at it from my (overstay) point of view and was told that because of the overstay, if denied, there is no recourse. However, if you look at the list of countries included in the VWP, Canada is not present. It would be interesting to know exactly what ... "program" Canada falls under. I'm not sure there is.

[Simmy 3]

Thanks so much you guys for your replies.

I'd like to clarify that when I said I was previously thinking about a CR-1, I meant "previously" as in last week, not before I crossed the border. When I actually came across the border, I came to visit, not to marry -- but I was of course wondering how far the relationship would go. While here, it's become obvious that I want to spend the rest of my life with this woman, and for now at least we want to live in the U.S. together. Thus I actually only started the immigration research while here, and now that I've done the research, I have decided to marry as it seems simpler to marry now and do the CR-1 process or AOS process than do the K1 process.

With that said, based on my understanding now that I have read what you have said, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that it would be fully legal and appropriate for me to apply for AOS even as simply as a visitor here, but this could potentially raise alarm bells, and that I would ultimately be safer going the CR-1 route. My sense is that my situation looks kind of fishy even though it's not really -- and this could be hard.

The other reason you folks are recommending CR-1 is financial, but the question of work is an interesting one, because I am a telecommuter (a web programmer) and I have continued to work for clients back in Canada while here. I could easily support myself while here and waiting for the AOS process. However, I am unclear of the legality of working while here, even if it is for clients back in Canada, and so this in itself could be a hindrance to the AOS process. Does anyone have any insight into that particular question?

Also: if I do go the CR-1 route, is there anything stopping me for making the application while here in the US, and continuing to visit my girlfriend until the Montreal date comes up? My roommates in Canada can forward me the mail. I'd never have to actually tell the US that I was here and telecommuting while doing the CR-1 process, and it seems like an easy enough thing not to mention at the interview.

Lastly: if I go the AOS route, can anyone tell me what the general timeline for the AOS process for someone in my situation looks like? Visajourney doesn't have timelines specific to AOS as far as I can find.

It looks like after considerable reading and research my path is becoming much clearer. My sincere thanks to this community. I hope to be able to contribute back with my own answers to questions as I get more in the know myself.

Simmy

[Simmy 3]

However, if you look at the list of countries included in the VWP, Canada is not present. It would be interesting to know exactly what ... "program" Canada falls under. I'm not sure there is.

Yep, Canada has a unique status. See here: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Visa_Waiver_Program#Citizens_of_Canada and http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/without_1260.html . There is no name for this status, as far as I can tell, so calling it "Canada's unique status" is the best I can think of.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

I am a telecommuter (a web programmer) and I have continued to work for clients back in Canada while here. I could easily support myself while here and waiting for the AOS process. However, I am unclear of the legality of working while here, even if it is for clients back in Canada, and so this in itself could be a hindrance to the AOS process. Does anyone have any insight into that particular question?

Also: if I do go the CR-1 route, is there anything stopping me for making the application while here in the US, and continuing to visit my girlfriend until the Montreal date comes up? My roommates in Canada can forward me the mail. I'd never have to actually tell the US that I was here and telecommuting while doing the CR-1 process, and it seems like an easy enough thing not to mention at the interview.

Regarding the telecommuting you' should be okay as long as you're working for Canadian clients and being paid in Canada.

Now the intentional overstay and hiding it at your interview is most troublesome. You are contemplating misrepresentation as Item # 25 of the DS-230 asks for the dates & durations of all visits to the US.

You may think they have no record of your entry but trust me they do. I once had a Canadian girlfriend and she as warned a few times about how often she was visiting the US. All of her entries were land-based, she drove across the border.

[Simmy 3]

Regarding the telecommuting you' should be okay as long as you're working for Canadian clients and being paid in Canada.

Awesome, thanks Bob 4 Anna! This comes as very good news -- I did read somewhere on the internet a while ago that one can't even work for clients back in their home country while visiting the US, ie, that one simply cannot work *period* without a work visa. So if anyone else could confirm what Bob 4 Anna says, ie. that what I read was wrong, that would be a welcome assurance.

Now the intentional overstay and hiding it at your interview is most troublesome. You are contemplating misrepresentation as Item # 25 of the DS-230 asks for the dates & durations of all visits to the US.

You may think they have no record of your entry but trust me they do. I once had a Canadian girlfriend and she as warned a few times about how often she was visiting the US. All of her entries were land-based, she drove across the border.

Thanks also for this. That clarifies things. I've read on this site that people *do* do this, but I'm realizing it may be a greater risk than I had assessed. I'd also appreciate any further confirmations from any others on this.

So the question of AOS vs CR-1 for me is coming down to these points:

time -- I still haven't heard from anyone regarding the timeline on AOS processes, but I'm gathering it's maybe a few months shorter than the CR-1 process? winner: AOS

money -- CR-1 is cheaper, but I'd need to fly to Montreal for the interview (from the west coast). Conversely, I am unclear as to where the AOS interview would take place, but I am assuming it would be somewhere in the US (not Canada) and somewhere on the west coast. If this assumption is correct (can anyone confirm?), then the cost of the CR-1 process including the airfare would actually be about the same as the cost of the AOS process. winner: neither

chances of success -- higher with CR-1, as there is a certain risk with the AOS process for someone in my situation, but arguably this is a small risk.: winner: CR-1

ins and outs -- with AOS, I'm forced to stay in the U.S, unless I apply for A.P., but on the flip side, I also *get* to stay here with my girlfriend. With CR-1, I am forced to return to Canada to make the application, but as a Canadian I can go between the US and Canada while the CR-1 is in process, though there's a small chance that the border guard will deny me anyhow. winner: AOS

If anyone has anything to add to that, I'd super appreciate it!

Simmy

[LiLMermaid 2]

While I agree that K1 is less risky, I have to say that I have never heard of Canadian AoS being more difficult. I have heard of them being less scrutinized or less denied because Canada is not a high fraud Country, but, the info I looked at was from an overstay point of view, not a visitor wishing to marry while they are within 180 days.

We are less scrutinized when it comes to being granted a K-1 or Cr-1 because ...well Canada is AWESOME...why would we marry just to move to the USA? When it comes to staying and applying for AOS rather then doing it the proper way...darn right we get scrutinized. I guess the reason is...we're almost guaranteed a visa unless we have broken the law in some way, shape or form. So if we take a shortcut....possibly we have something to hide. *shrugs* just my thought on it.

[Kittyfang 6]

We are less scrutinized when it comes to being granted a K-1 or Cr-1 because ...well Canada is AWESOME...why would we marry just to move to the USA? When it comes to staying and applying for AOS rather then doing it the proper way...darn right we get scrutinized. I guess the reason is...we're almost guaranteed a visa unless we have broken the law in some way, shape or form. So if we take a shortcut....possibly we have something to hide. *shrugs* just my thought on it.

I see what you mean. Also, if you look at it from USCIS' point of view, what they want is to make sure that people marry for love, not GC. As you said, Canadians don't really have anything to gain from going to the U.S., so it's more likely that we would marry for love, than for a GC only. Just my opinion.