My Vietnamese girlfriend and me need help

[Mr. 2000 0]

From what i remebered from my process, both people have to be there to sign the paperwork. There was no mailing involved. We has to go to the So Tu Phap (or something like that) and apply, then 45 days later, come back and sign. This process may vary slightly from region to region though.

Oh man...if that's true then it really throws a wrench into my plans...I can't really afford to fly to VN like that, I mean it's already about $2K per trip when all is said and done...plus I hate flying and this is about the longest possible flight there is.

[What's next 1]

My tax returns would not show sufficient income after all deductions since I run a business. I've always used bank statements before to document my income when applying for loans and did not have any problems. From what I read on the form, they're asking if I have the money to support her and myself and I have to show that my funds exceed the national poverty level for 2 people (about $18K/yr), which I do...anyway I don't mind supplying a tax return but I don't want them saying that my income is too low because of the figures on the tax return.

I think you can list your bank account as assets, along with stuff like real estate. And they factor that in somehow.

[ScottThuy 140]

I'm not going to take 4 trips there...lol...that is ridiculous and expensive. I've known her since 2005 and we can prove that we've known each other that long since we exchanged items via the post office. My plan is to go there, marry her, and then come back here to file the I-130. I will return to VN once more at the time of her interview, and I will be present with her...it will not take much to see how we really feel about each other. I can't really think of a good reason they'd decline us as their main goal is to ensure the marriage is legit and the couple is in love.

The notion of having to meet someone in person to "truly" know them is false - in fact you probably do get to know someone better over the internet because all you can do is talk with them. Living with them you will learn about their personal quirks but I'm not too worried about that since everyone has them. Suggesting that things MUST be traditional to pass is also false - although it may raise some red flags in certain cases, like where the guy is 30 years older than the girl and the girl is like 20...but think about what you're saying...traditional in VN means marring another VN native. The whole idea of marrying a foreigner is rather "non traditional" and a family that would be ok with their daughter marrying a foreigner is most likely going to be more open-minded and non traditional.

I am confident that she and I know each other well enough, and passing the interview should not be a problem. I'm also quite familiar with her family and she knows mine. My main concern was any potential conflict between the student visa attempt and this, however it seems that as long as we marry sometime after 30 days have elapsed since her last student visa interview it won't pose any issues. The way I see it, we have enough B.S. to deal with as it is, with all these forms and irritating interviews. No reason to make it more complicated than it already is.

One more question regarding the affidavit of support. The instruction sheet says it is ok to provide a bank statement (prepared by the bank's officer) as proof of income. Are tax returns absolutely required, or can I just provide that bank statement?

Thanks for the feedback.

Good luck...

[ttp 0]

From my understanding, both people must be present at the So Tu Phap. For my wife and I, it took about 30 days. Paperwork and mental exam the first day and an official marriage ceremony at the So Tu Phap 30 days later.

As far as assets, I believe they take 1/3 of your total assets and add that to your income to determine if you're 125% above the poverty line.

Also, I believe the most current year tax forms are required, the 2nd and 3rd most recent are optional.

Edited July 24, 2010 by ttp

[BinhJerome 14]

Lots of things I see here are concerning. You are going into HCMC blind, but this is your choice and as Scott said Good luck. The wedding does take 30 days to do, there are things you can do in the US and have them sent ahead to speed up the process, you will need to go to the US consulate even in the US and get an affadavit of single status, also go to your court house and have them sign something stating there is no record of you being married for 2 or 5 years, these things need to be certified in Vietnam and this takes a few days, so if you can get the affadavit done before you arrive this saves you time on your trip to the consulate when you are here, you can have your fiancee go to the local VN place to get the paperwork needed for the wedding application, and there are services that charge something like $300 to help speed up the process, but it will still take close to 30days and you HAVE TO SIGN THE WEDDING DOCUMENT NO MAILING. Look online and see all the exact requirements for both you and HER she needs to get lots of paperwork as well, and if she lives in the countryside, this means taking much time. The quickest way to do this is to have all the paperwork filled out that you possibly can then show up the first day go to the hospital for the mental exam, then send off everything for certification and translation where needed, then go and put in your applicatioin then sit and wait until they give you the appointment, you might be able to pay to have it done sooner, but I am not sure since we did not try, and for us it took like 32 days from when we went to the consulate until we went to sign, we used a service for the latter half and did many things on our own. Hope this helps. Now for your tax records, they do REQUIRE one years tax return, and not a 1040 that you print off, they want one from the IRS, it is free, all you have to do is call them up. To many people have tried to use the bank account only and had friends dump lots of cash in it or people in VN just for a print out so a current bank statement does nothing accept show for 1 minute you had x amount of money in it. All in all it seems like you want to do what you want to do, and that is great because it is your life, for 5 years now you have been writing a woman and have never met her face to face, I applaud you for that, you have done what most people cant do, and that is keep your initial relationship out of the bedroom and you have actually gotten to know her for who she is, the downside is that you now feel you truly know her, and that you truly love her and vice versa. For any relationship to work there also has to be physical chemistry, hopefully when you do show up and meet her it is there for you, I would say that it wont be a problem, but I have known people that showed up and both people truly did love one another, but when they are together it wasnt the same, and I have also known people that have showed up and found out the person had lied and they were not who they said they were, but after 5 years this should not be the problem with the both of you. My advice is to brouse this forum, read all our stories, and even send PM's to people and see what all of our different experiences have been, don't assume it is easy, but also dont assume it is impossible. I know a CO personally here, and from what you have written I am sure he would eat your fiancee alive, not trying to scare you, just stating the facts. All of your valid points about cultural norms are correct, and all of us agree with you that what you feel is the right and correct thing, HOWEVER the people with the pink piece of paper are the ones with the final say in the matter, and if you read a few of our stories you will see that what you think is right is more often than not wrong. Jerome

[Anh map 2,098]

My tax returns would not show sufficient income after all deductions since I run a business. I've always used bank statements before to document my income when applying for loans and did not have any problems. From what I read on the form, they're asking if I have the money to support her and myself and I have to show that my funds exceed the national poverty level for 2 people (about $18K/yr), which I do...anyway I don't mind supplying a tax return but I don't want them saying that my income is too low because of the figures on the tax return.

The affidavit of support form you would be using is the I-864. You are required to show the most recent tax return. It's fairly typical to include the last 3 years' tax returns.

As a self employed person the affidavit of support can trip you up. Line 22 of your 1040 is what is evaluated regarding income. This nets out your expenses. If it doesn't meet the income mark, then you need to consider your options (use assets, obtain a co-sponsor, or resubmit your past year's tax return and show sufficient income). If you want to include assets in the equation, see the I-864 instructions for guidelines and valuation requirements. Assets are considered at a 3 to 1 ratio ($3000 in assets = $1000 toward the income requirement).

I urge you to take some time and read through the Vietnam forum to gain a sense of what awaits you in the HCMC experience. Well prepared couples submitting well prepared petitions tend to be successful.

Best of luck.

[Dau Que 6]

I'm not going to take 4 trips there...lol...that is ridiculous and expensive. I've known her since 2005 and we can prove that we've known each other that long since we exchanged items via the post office. My plan is to go there, marry her, and then come back here to file the I-130. I will return to VN once more at the time of her interview, and I will be present with her...it will not take much to see how we really feel about each other. I can't really think of a good reason they'd decline us as their main goal is to ensure the marriage is legit and the couple is in love.

The notion of having to meet someone in person to "truly" know them is false - in fact you probably do get to know someone better over the internet because all you can do is talk with them. Living with them you will learn about their personal quirks but I'm not too worried about that since everyone has them. Suggesting that things MUST be traditional to pass is also false - although it may raise some red flags in certain cases, like where the guy is 30 years older than the girl and the girl is like 20...but think about what you're saying...traditional in VN means marring another VN native. The whole idea of marrying a foreigner is rather "non traditional" and a family that would be ok with their daughter marrying a foreigner is most likely going to be more open-minded and non traditional.

I am confident that she and I know each other well enough, and passing the interview should not be a problem. I'm also quite familiar with her family and she knows mine. My main concern was any potential conflict between the student visa attempt and this, however it seems that as long as we marry sometime after 30 days have elapsed since her last student visa interview it won't pose any issues. The way I see it, we have enough B.S. to deal with as it is, with all these forms and irritating interviews. No reason to make it more complicated than it already is.

One more question regarding the affidavit of support. The instruction sheet says it is ok to provide a bank statement (prepared by the bank's officer) as proof of income. Are tax returns absolutely required, or can I just provide that bank statement?

Thanks for the feedback.

Fast forward a few months after the OP's SO receives the blue/white slip, he'll come back here and throws in this question "Anyone knows how long the AP waiting time is?"....and of course the usual whining "That US Consulate in Saigon totally sucks, blah blah"

You asked us what you should do, then you refuse to listen. I don't even bother wish you luck. What you need is good preparation and you're refusing to do it right now.

[Dau Que 6]

Edit to add: don't argue your love story with us. Do it with the CO. They're the one who make decision. I hope your arguing skill will supersede their skepticism. Lots of folks tried before you, unfortunately, they've failed. Words won't bring success with this particular Consulate. Your case has THREE red flags, previous attempt for Visa (and failed), previous marriage (involving marriage Visa, a double whammy), and insufficient income (huge red flag for marriage fraud)

[lindal24 1]

Oh man...if that's true then it really throws a wrench into my plans...I can't really afford to fly to VN like that, I mean it's already about $2K per trip when all is said and done...plus I hate flying and this is about the longest possible flight there is.

It is possible to get your marriage certificate in 2 weeks--I did.

It's all about the timing...

Goodluck, sounds like you'll need alot of it!

[Mr. 2000 0]

Fast forward a few months after the OP's SO receives the blue/white slip, he'll come back here and throws in this question "Anyone knows how long the AP waiting time is?"....and of course the usual whining "That US Consulate in Saigon totally sucks, blah blah"

You asked us what you should do, then you refuse to listen. I don't even bother wish you luck. What you need is good preparation and you're refusing to do it right now.

I have spoken with an attorney as did my girl, and both of them said that with a marriage visa the embassy cannot really decline it. Preparation is one thing but going overboard does not guarantee success nor does it really improve the chances of success. I welcome the advice anyone has to provide but I will follow it at my own discretion. You should know that everyone's case is unique and what worked/didn't work for one couple is not necessarily something that would work for us.

Edit to add: don't argue your love story with us. Do it with the CO. They're the one who make decision. I hope your arguing skill will supersede their skepticism. Lots of folks tried before you, unfortunately, they've failed. Words won't bring success with this particular Consulate. Your case has THREE red flags, previous attempt for Visa (and failed), previous marriage (involving marriage Visa, a double whammy), and insufficient income (huge red flag for marriage fraud)

You can bet I will be arguing that during the interview if there is any question. VN is not somewhere I want to go...really...I have no desire to go to any 3rd world country, nevermind a communist country...while many people may not share my sentiment it does show that I'm completely serious about this. The student visa is not related to this, and once 30 days have elapsed since the last interview it should be a non issue. If they ask, we will simply tell the truth. The previous marriage is NOT a red flag because I did marry the girl, she did become a US citizen and got her green card...and it was over 10 years ago, so it's not like I'm marrying foreign women left and right - and the lawyer I spoke to said the same thing, it's not bad that I did marry a girl on a K1 visa before since we both did it right. Insufficient income according to the tax return should not be an issue because I can easily show that I meet the requirements by submitting assets, even with the 3:1 ratio.

I do appreciate Jerome's post as he pointed out the things I should get before I go to VN, and that was very helpful. Is there a website with an up to date checklist that I can view, so that I can make sure I have all the necessary documents prepared before going over there?

It is possible to get your marriage certificate in 2 weeks--I did.

It's all about the timing...

Goodluck, sounds like you'll need alot of it!

Can you elaborate on what you mean by timing? Is that someway I can coordinate with my trip so that my girl and I can get that certificate before I return to the states?

[ScottThuy 140]

dude.. you drank that atty's koolaid.. if you seriously believe that they cant deny a visa to a married couple that is prepared you have been seriously misled... ask Huong , or Kevin or Ly trinh... nobody is saying go overboard.. but this aint the consulate to underestimate....

The previous K1 is a red flag as far as HCMC is concerned.. they will take a closer look at your case because of it...

Listen to whom you want.. believe what you want... You cant attend the interview, you can only sit accross the street and wait for the results... Been there done that... you can yell all you want at the consulate.. the only thing that will cause is alot of unwanted interest from a VN military personel with an AK hanging from his shoulder.. been there done that...

As I said before.. talk to another atty that knows ####### he's talking about... you clearly talked to one that isnt up to snuff..

EOM..........

[ScottThuy 140]

Fast forward a few months after the OP's SO receives the blue/white slip, he'll come back here and throws in this question "Anyone knows how long the AP waiting time is?"....and of course the usual whining "That US Consulate in Saigon totally sucks, blah blah"

You asked us what you should do, then you refuse to listen. I don't even bother wish you luck. What you need is good preparation and you're refusing to do it right now.

[lindal24 1]

I have spoken with an attorney as did my girl, and both of them said that with a marriage visa the embassy cannot really decline it. Preparation is one thing but going overboard does not guarantee success nor does it really improve the chances of success. I welcome the advice anyone has to provide but I will follow it at my own discretion. You should know that everyone's case is unique and what worked/didn't work for one couple is not necessarily something that would work for us.

Actually, the embassy can, and have declined marriage visa. If they determine your case to be fraudulent, they can also ban your SO. But you're right, everyone's case is unique and it's ultimately your decision on how you will proceed.

You can bet I will be arguing that during the interview if there is any question. VN is not somewhere I want to go...really...I have no desire to go to any 3rd world country, nevermind a communist country...while many people may not share my sentiment it does show that I'm completely serious about this. The student visa is not related to this, and once 30 days have elapsed since the last interview it should be a non issue. If they ask, we will simply tell the truth. The previous marriage is NOT a red flag because I did marry the girl, she did become a US citizen and got her green card...and it was over 10 years ago, so it's not like I'm marrying foreign women left and right - and the lawyer I spoke to said the same thing, it's not bad that I did marry a girl on a K1 visa before since we both did it right. Insufficient income according to the tax return should not be an issue because I can easily show that I meet the requirements by submitting assets, even with the 3:1 ratio.

I do appreciate Jerome's post as he pointed out the things I should get before I go to VN, and that was very helpful. Is there a website with an up to date checklist that I can view, so that I can make sure I have all the necessary documents prepared before going over there?

Go to this website and it'll list out everything you need:

http://www.vietnamembassy.us/consular_services/marry_a_vietnamese/

Can you elaborate on what you mean by timing? Is that someway I can coordinate with my trip so that my girl and I can get that certificate before I return to the states?

I went to the VN Embassy website I provided to you above and got EVERYTHING prepared here in the US (including getting all the documents notarized, certified, and authenticated).

As soon as I landed in Vietnam we went and filed it at the Justice Center right at 7am the next day. I ended up needing to redo the medical there in VN but it wasn't difficult (same day we tried to file it with the Justice Center). Went back the same day to submit everything but was told to come back the next day for an interview. Went in for the interview the next day and they told us they'll call when they make a determination. LUCKILY, they called us back a week and a half later to tell us that we could go in and sign the registration book and pick up the certificate on Friday (the day before I left to go back to the US).

If you can find someone, or someone who knows someone, who works at the Justice Center, you can probably get your paperwork moving a little faster. $300USD is alot. You can probably get away with slipping them a $50.

You run the risk of cutting it REALLY close though!! I wouldn't have had a problem extending my flight to stay for the certificate, but we managed to get everything (engagement, wedding, reception, honeymoon, marriage certificate) done in exactly two weeks (in that order...lol)!

[BurningFinger 5]

Okay. I will give my 2 cents worth.....

Mr. 2000, please do not take this personally but you are making a big mistake. I honestly hope that after reading this, you will have the common sense to FIRE that attorney of yours. From my experiences, attorneys will tell you whatever you want to hear just to keep your services. You need to stand up for yourself and do your own research about this issue. The other members on this forum have given you valuable experience. They have been there and done that. What they are telling you comes from personal experience. Do not go blindly into this with the mentality of "this cannot be a problem because it shouldn't be this way". The Consulate does NOT care about how things "SHOULD" be. If they find any reason to deny your visa, they will do it. They are not your friends. They are not your buddies. They are your master until they issue you the visa.

What your attorney probably neglected to mention to you is that the HCMC Consulate is one of the most difficult in the whole world to get a visa from. ANY visa for that matter. What your attorney neglected to mention to you is that the HCMC Consulate is one of the highest fraud Consulates in the world based upon the high levels of fraud they see each day. Take some time to read the AP thread to see the horror that some have gone through or are still going through. Some realized too late how much hell this Consulate can put you through. Fortunately, you still have a chance to do things correctly.

The Consulate does not give a ####### about your personal feelings or your girlfriends feelings. Give them what they want or you will suffer the consequences. This isn't the girl scouts, its bureaucracy. Address your red flags and take time to document your relationship and prove it accordingly in your petition. I hope you have the patience to learn from others mistakes and not go into unprepared.

[ttp 0]

Mr. 2000,

I did the marriage paperwork according to the VN embassy website, and it still took almost a month for the So Tu Phap to "process" the paperwork.

Don't get mad at the forum members because they're not telling you what you want to hear. The lawyers I talked to before starting the CR1 paperwork were informative, but not necessary. I researched A LOT, then asked a few questions for clarification. I also talked to a couple of incompetent lawyers as well. The forum as a whole have been MUCH more useful.

Also, don't hate the country just because of its socioeconomic status or political affiliation. Just like in the US, there are good and bad people everywhere, regardless.

Just know that the HCMC consulate owes you nothing; they've heard every "love story" in the book, and have been scammed by many people throughout the years. I'll venture to say that they're looking for ANY reason, anything suspicious. YOU will NOT be allowed at the interview, and it is unlikely you'll ever personally speak to anyone of importance.

Take care and address your red flags ahead of time. Your red flags are giant flags, no matter how you rationalize it to yourself and the forum. As long as you have sufficient evidence to address said red flags, don't worry about justifying yourself to us. Formulate a well-written timeline. Take it slow. I didn't submit my I-130 until 2 months after my marriage, because I wanted to address anything and everything that could pose a problem.

You and your lady friend have known each other for over 5 years. Take your time; both of you can wait a bit longer. Do not cause irreversible harm to your cause by jumping the gun and getting reckless.