Living abroad before citizenship

[Thailand Lovers 0]

I'm a USC and my wife is from Thailand. She came to the USA on a fiancee visa, and we have been married and living in the States for a year and a half. We would like to spend the winter in Thailand (about six to eight months) but are concerned how this may affect her future application for US citizenship. The sooner she gets the citizenship, the better. After three years as a permanent resident, it should be possible, right? But how long can we safely live abroad this winter, without adversely affecting her future application?

[milimelo 4,578]

I'm a USC and my wife is from Thailand. She came to the USA on a fiancee visa, and we have been married and living in the States for a year and a half. We would like to spend the winter in Thailand (about six to eight months) but are concerned how this may affect her future application for US citizenship. The sooner she gets the citizenship, the better. After three years as a permanent resident, it should be possible, right? But how long can we safely live abroad this winter, without adversely affecting her future application?

Read the M-476 manual for naturalization - gives examples of absences questions.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

After she has been absent from the US for 6 months, her clock STOPS. The moment she comes back, it starts ticking again.

If she stays away for 1 year, the stopped clock sets itself back to ZERO. The moment she comes back she starts with day one of her residency.

Therefore, a day less than 6 months would be the most she can leave if she doesn't want to lose any residency time.

[warlord 73]

After she has been absent from the US for 6 months, her clock STOPS. The moment she comes back, it starts ticking again.

If she stays away for 1 year, the stopped clock sets itself back to ZERO. The moment she comes back she starts with day one of her residency.

Therefore, a day less than 6 months would be the most she can leave if she doesn't want to lose any residency time.

In addition, even the less then 6 months will be added to the running total of other trips she has had since being a permenant resident. So multiple trips of long durations (even under 6 motnhs) can also break residency.

Plus remember anything over 6 months you will have to prove to the IO that you were not living and residing abroad, but only visiting. So make sure you still have all your ties to the US (Home/bills etc) if you do end up trying for citizenship. This will apply to any amount of time outside the US, but after 6 months you will have to show the proof, while as under 6 months it would be up to the IO to prove you broke continous residency.

And yes as you mentioned in your post, it is best to wait till she has citizenship before trying something like this. You could wide up a) losing your continous residency or even b) much worse depending on the IO and lack of US ties (if this would apply)...

[Thailand Lovers 0]

In addition, even the less then 6 months will be added to the running total of other trips she has had since being a permenant resident. So multiple trips of long durations (even under 6 motnhs) can also break residency.

Plus remember anything over 6 months you will have to prove to the IO that you were not living and residing abroad, but only visiting. So make sure you still have all your ties to the US (Home/bills etc) if you do end up trying for citizenship. This will apply to any amount of time outside the US, but after 6 months you will have to show the proof, while as under 6 months it would be up to the IO to prove you broke continous residency.

And yes as you mentioned in your post, it is best to wait till she has citizenship before trying something like this. You could wide up a) losing your continous residency or even b) much worse depending on the IO and lack of US ties (if this would apply)...

We spent six weeks in Thailand last year, plus a week in Canada this year. If we had six months for this trip, then it would still have the green light. But if all those other trips count towards the total (plus those to come next year), then we may as well stay in the States for the remainder of this year. What a game changer!

[Thailand Lovers 0]

Before changing our plans, I googled it and found this:

The physical presence test looks at how much total time you have spent in and out of the United States. During the qualifying period, you must have spent at least half of the time physically present inside the United States. “Physically present” means that you must be actually located in the United States and not just maintaining a mailing address here. If your qualifying period is five years, then you must have spent at least 30 months in the United States; if your qualifying period is three years, then you must have spent at least 18 months in the United States. If you have not been physically present for a long enough period of time, you must wait until you have met the requirement before filing.

According to this information, the total time permitted outside the USA is actually 1 year 6 months! This seems at odds with what the warlord said. Any comments?

[warlord 73]

Before changing our plans, I googled it and found this:

According to this information, the total time permitted outside the USA is actually 1 year 6 months! This seems at odds with what the warlord said. Any comments?

I just said that if you had taken a lot of trips that go over the alloted time then you could have your clock re-set. I didn't know the exact time (1 year and 6 months) final total. I just said you have to watch that you do not go over that since it is total trips, not just any single trip...

[warlord 73]

I just said that if you had taken a lot of trips that go over the alloted time then you could have your clock re-set. I didn't know the exact time (1 year and 6 months) final total. I just said you have to watch that you do not go over that since it is total trips, not just any single trip...

This article should answer most any other questions. It seems to cover quite a bit.

http://www.faegre.com/showarticle.aspx?Show=8887

I just remember several cases where people would take 5 month trips, come back for a few months leave again for 5 or so months etc. The total time outside of the US then was the issue and they had to wait the 4 years plus a day to apply. Someone who takes 8 months outside the US and that's it is up to the IO as it's over 6 months. Again, some will let it go and others won't. It all depends on your case...

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Okay, let me chime in again.

What I said in 100% correct: 1 day less than 6 months and the residency clock keeps running and running and running.

In regard to what Warlord said, someone who is applying for citizenship based on the marriage to a USC (the 3-year rule) cannot be outside the US for more than half of that time, which would be 1 year and 6 months.

Now put this into perspective!

You become a Green Card holder on January 1 2005.

You leave immediately and come back on June 30.

You have been gone for 1 day less than 6 months, so the clock keeps ticking.

You leave again on August 1, come back on December 31.

You have been gone for 1 day less than 5 months, so the clock still keeps ticking.

If you keep a pattern of in and out like this up, by the time you apply for naturalization on January 1, 2008, you have been a LPR for 3 years, you have never been out of the country for 6 months, but your total time spent in the US would disqualify you.

If you really digest that, my guess is that at some point during the 3 previous years the I.O. would have ripped your skin off your head, taken your Green Card, and sent you back on an airplane already.

Basically, the "half the residency time" rule is for Green Card tourists, not "real" residents.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Just Bob

[Thailand Lovers 0]

Okay, let me chime in again.

What I said in 100% correct: 1 day less than 6 months and the residency clock keeps running and running and running.

In regard to what Warlord said, someone who is applying for citizenship based on the marriage to a USC (the 3-year rule) cannot be outside the US for more than half of that time, which would be 1 year and 6 months.

Now put this into perspective!

You become a Green Card holder on January 1 2005.

You leave immediately and come back on June 30.

You have been gone for 1 day less than 6 months, so the clock keeps ticking.

You leave again on August 1, come back on December 31.

You have been gone for 1 day less than 5 months, so the clock still keeps ticking.

If you keep a pattern of in and out like this up, by the time you apply for naturalization on January 1, 2008, you have been a LPR for 3 years, you have never been out of the country for 6 months, but your total time spent in the US would disqualify you.

If you really digest that, my guess is that at some point during the 3 previous years the I.O. would have ripped your skin off your head, taken your Green Card, and sent you back on an airplane already.

Basically, the "half the residency time" rule is for Green Card tourists, not "real" residents.

The rule is quite liberal, I agree. But as long as you follow it, then you'll be fine, right?

[warlord 73]

The rule is quite liberal, I agree. But as long as you follow it, then you'll be fine, right?

Depends on the IO. People have been outside the US for longer then 6 months and not had any issues, others have been out less then 6 months on a single trip and have been denied. It will all boil down to how the IO views your case. Everyone has different experiences. Just like with traffic tickets, some people like me that had a few never had any issues, others that had one did.

Unfortuntaly the N-400 (and most the rest of INS proceedures) are never cut and dry, there is too much ambiguity in them and one IO will view it differently then another IO. Even the review board that looks at the final application will differ too. The safest way though is not to make any trip longer then 6 months and don't pull the "leave for 5 months and 3 weeks, come back to the US for a week and leave for another 5 months" type thing. Sometimes though that's not possible...