Immigrant deaths in Arizona desert soaring in July

[peejay 327]

Your passport must be ancient!

(PS. I knew what you were referring to, just taking the mick. )

Here's one that is a bit older than that. It's my granny's old Tsarist era Belorussian passport. I found it in a box of documents when going through my oldest aunt's stuff after she died.

[Captain Oates 911]

Your passport must be ancient!

(PS. I knew what you were referring to, just taking the mick. )

I have one of those with the corner cut off. (The Brit one)

I just looked in it and it has an indefinite business visa for the USA dated 1984

I know that visas still work in expired passports so long as there is a current passport presented

wonder if the visa is still valid

Edited July 19, 2010 by saywhat

[peejay 327]

The low point was the decade of the 1930's. I would think the Great Depression and the Great Dust Bowl had something to do with immigration levels, as normal migration patterns were being displaced by another migration of folks leaving the Midwest for jobs in California, something as portrayed in the Grapes of Wrath.

Here is a quote from a book I read a while back that will explain the historic graph. The American people of the era grew weary of the high immigration numbers and saw it was not in their best interests. They slashed immigration numbers even before the Great Depression set in. Yes, and the Great Depression and WWII probably reduced immigration levels beyond even that. The point of the graph is to show that all things eventually hit their equilibrium. I personally believe it has today as it did back in the 1920's, but some people will continue to demagogue the issue with their own agendas. Here is an excerpt from the book:

Anthony Caminetti, the immigration chief at the Department of Labor who conspired with Edgar to set the Red Raids in motion in late 1919, managed to avoid taking any blame for them in congressional hearings afterward. Instead, Caminetti left the country in late 1920 for an extended tour of Europe, visiting England, France, Belgium, Holland, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia. He came home in January 1921 with a new message. America had to close its doors for good on mass immigration. Caminetti claimed to see a looming nightmare during his overseas trip: hordes of Europe’s poorest outcasts clamoring to reach America. Immigration from Europe already had rebounded sharply after World War I. More than 560,000 newcomers had passed through Ellis Island in 1921, approaching levels not seen since 1914. Steamship lines announced that their lowly steerage bunks were booked solid for a full year in advance.

Caminetti’s words struck a chord. “This flood of cheap foreign labor is a menace to American prosperity and American standards of living,” the Chicago Daily Tribune editorialized. Congressman Albert Johnson, chairman of the House Immigration Committee, agreed. When one business leader suggested that immigration might help the country’s economy, Johnson slapped him down: “Do you want to let the scourings of the sewers of Europe be poured into the United States?” he asked. General Leonard Wood, a leading Republican presidential contender in 1920, echoed the point: “We do not want to be the dumping ground for radicals, agitators, Reds, who do not understand our ideals.”

Six months after Caminetti returned to Washington, Congress passed the Emergency Immigration Act of 1921 creating country-by-country quotas, calculated at 3 percent of the number of people from each country living in the United States in 1910, a formula designed to limit the admission of Russians, Eastern Europeans, and Italians. In 1924, Congress closed the door further, adjusting the country quota formula back to demographic data from 1890 and, beginning in 1927, limiting immigrants overall to 150,000 per year. As a result, Italy saw its yearly quota slashed from 42,047 under the old law to 3,845 under the new.

The waves of mass immigration that recast American life during the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries came to a halt.

Source: Young J. Edgar : Hoover, the Red Scare, and the assault on civil liberties / Kenneth D. Ackerman. Pages 394 & 395

[Captain Oates 911]

If the graph includes illegals then it has to be estimated - if it doesn't then it has to be inaccurate

So either way it's got holes in it.

what's all this 'demagogue the issue with their own agendas ?'

Can I make a plea for plain speaking please ? East of the Cascades we even have to wonder what 'get off my lawn' means, so we struggle with university talk

Edited July 19, 2010 by saywhat

[peejay 327]

If the graph includes illegals then it has to be estimated - if it doesn't then it has to be inaccurate

So either way it's got holes in it.

what's all this 'demagogue the issue with their own agendas ?'

Can I make a plea for plain speaking please ? East of the Cascades we even have to wonder what 'get off my lawn' means, so we struggle with university talk

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

You can lead the ignorant to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

[Captain Oates 911]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

You can lead the ignorant to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

Pride comes before a fall

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

This is the acceptable price that our government pays for continuing to allow American businesses to exploit illegals for low wages. anything for a profit is OK, especially if they can eventually be registered as Democrats also.

This is a disgusting business of human exploitation and until we PUNISH the exploiters, it will continue. The racist pigs that do nothing and even fight against proposals such as asking for ID are only promoting more of the same. Protecting their "right" to privacy...and their "right" to die serving us for low wages.

Something else to consider...since many of these people enter without ID or have false ID, they go off to earn money for their families and never return. Who will the coroner notify? What a disgusting bunch of people that continue to promote this horror.

[Captain Oates 911]

This is the acceptable price that our government pays for continuing to allow American businesses to exploit illegals for low wages. anything for a profit is OK, especially if they can eventually be registered as Democrats also.

This is a disgusting business of human exploitation and until we PUNISH the exploiters, it will continue. The racist pigs that do nothing and even fight against proposals such as asking for ID are only promoting more of the same. Protecting their "right" to privacy...and their "right" to die serving us for low wages.

Something else to consider...since many of these people enter without ID or have false ID, they go off to earn money for their families and never return. Who will the coroner notify? What a disgusting bunch of people that continue to promote this horror.

As far as I know, US Federal immigration law has stayed the same under Bush and Obama

It isn't therefore the fault of either political party specifically - and must therefore be the fault of both or neither.

The contrast between what we VJers went through at POE and before, and what goes on at the Mexican border is very striking and one must assume a certain complicity by the government.

Contrast going from Syria to Iraq with going from Mexico to the US - and both borders controlled by the US government

Edited July 19, 2010 by saywhat

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As far as I know, US Federal immigration law has stayed the same under Bush and Obama

It isn't therefore the fault of either political party specifically - and must therefore be the fault of both or neither.

The contrast between what we VJers went through at POE and before, and what goes on at the Mexican border is very striking and one must assume a certain complicity by the government.

Contrast going from Syria to Iraq with going from Mexico to the US - and both borders controlled by the US government

Both Republicans racists and Democrat racists are complicit in this. They do not want to end the "problem" as for them it is NOT a problem. Republican racists get cheap labor and avoid all the labor laws that Democrats pass to protect white people, Democrats eventually get brown people to vote for them even though they are still exploited, and get brown people to be dependent on them, thus growing government to "serve" them. Everyone wins!

If we applied a $500,000 per day tax, per illegal, and seized property to pay the tax for violating US labor and wage laws, SS laws, medicare act, etc. NO ONE would dare to hire an illegal and they would all LEAVE (self deport) when there was no money to be earned by being exploited. They come for economic reasons and none other. When we eliminate the economic reason, they will stop coming. Until then, they will not. It is the simplest equation in the world.

People who "defend" their "rights" simply promote exploitation of brown people, they are racists.

[Captain Oates 911]

Both Republicans racists and Democrat racists are complicit in this. They do not want to end the "problem" as for them it is NOT a problem. Republican racists get cheap labor and avoid all the labor laws that Democrats pass to protect white people, Democrats eventually get brown people to vote for them even though they are still exploited, and get brown people to be dependent on them, thus growing government to "serve" them. Everyone wins!

If we applied a $500,000 per day tax, per illegal, and seized property to pay the tax for violating US labor and wage laws, SS laws, medicare act, etc. NO ONE would dare to hire an illegal and they would all LEAVE (self deport) when there was no money to be earned by being exploited. They come for economic reasons and none other. When we eliminate the economic reason, they will stop coming. Until then, they will not. It is the simplest equation in the world.

People who "defend" their "rights" simply promote exploitation of brown people, they are racists.

ah but, extending the economic argument - if you were a Mexican who could not get a job in the US because of all these draconian penalties on employers, what is in your best economic interest :

A Self deport as you say and be poor and a crime victim in Mexico

B Stay and do crime on the rich Americanos ?

Edited July 19, 2010 by saywhat

[TBoneTX 45,329]

If we applied a $500,000 per day tax, per illegal, and seized property to pay the tax for violating US labor and wage laws, SS laws, medicare act, etc. NO ONE would dare to hire an illegal and they would all LEAVE (self deport) when there was no money to be earned by being exploited. They come for economic reasons and none other. When we eliminate the economic reason, they will stop coming. Until then, they will not. It is the simplest equation in the world.

This idea has strong appeal in many ways. However: [1] Aren't there enough small businesses in the country so that illegals could find & retain employment while remaining under the radar? [2] Seize property?! Isn't the Fourth Amendment on life support already?

It has been said that if there were the slightest hint that fewer than 60% of newly amnesthetized (new word) illegals would vote Democrat, Honest Obe would build a high-speed train to deport all of them not just to Mexico, but to Peru.

[Captain Oates 911]

amnesthetized (new word)

Sarah's new word today is 'refudiate'

no doubt Keith Olbermann will describe her as an 'Idiesse' tonight

I bet the Anglo-Saxons from 600 AD are spinning in their graves if they weren't cremated

Edited July 19, 2010 by saywhat

[TBoneTX 45,329]

I bet the Anglo-Saxons from 600 AD are spinning in their graves if they weren't cremated

I dig new words, si man. If I were alive, I'd be spinning in my grave.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

ah but, extending the economic argument - if you were a Mexican who could not get a job in the US because of all these draconian penalties on employers, what is in your best economic interest :

A Self deport as you say and be poor and a crime victim in Mexico

B Stay and do crime on the rich Americanos ?

Poor comparison. Most people are not criminals, even most Mexicans are not criminals. the vast majority would self deport. You know this and I know this. I mean, why do most Americans NOT sell or smuggle drugs? It isn't an exclusive Mexican thing, you know. I could make money smuggling drugs, I live right near the border, but I do not. I am not a criminal.

If someone remained illegally to commit crime, then we have laws to deal with criminals. I just really do not buy into the idea that some Mexicans are not criminals NOW because we allow them to replace our roofs without dafety equipment in 100+ temperatures for $25 per day...but they would suddenly rather earn MUCH more as criminals if they lost their roofing job. It just doesn't make sense.

"illegal immigration" is not the same as a crime problem, they are separate and there are separate laws to deal with the two separate problems.

However it is normal for racists from either political party to invent non-sensical "arguments" against that which would end the "problem" of illegal immigration. They do not want to end it. They benefit too much from it and they do not care that a few brown people die in the process...they are unidentifed and don't really "exist". Besides, it isn't like they are white people.

[Captain Oates 911]

I dig new words, si man. If I were alive, I'd be spinning in my grave.

I think new words are deplorable, and if it were not for the French, the unpleasantness in 1776 would have blown over, the Queen's English would still be used and everyone would have free health care

GC's and Naturalization would be unnecessary as would double taxation - and UK/US flights would be domestic.

We could have president's question time every Thursday where people could hurl insults at him in person just like in Westminster.

Is it too late for both sides to see sense ?

Poor comparison. Most people are not criminals, even most Mexicans are not criminals. the vast majority would self deport. You know this and I know this. I mean, why do most Americans NOT sell or smuggle drugs? It isn't an exclusive Mexican thing, you know. I could make money smuggling drugs, I live right near the border, but I do not. I am not a criminal.

If someone remained illegally to commit crime, then we have laws to deal with criminals. I just really do not buy into the idea that some Mexicans are not criminals NOW because we allow them to replace our roofs without dafety equipment in 100+ temperatures for $25 per day...but they would suddenly rather earn MUCH more as criminals if they lost their roofing job. It just doesn't make sense.

"illegal immigration" is not the same as a crime problem, they are separate and there are separate laws to deal with the two separate problems.

However it is normal for racists from either political party to invent non-sensical "arguments" against that which would end the "problem" of illegal immigration. They do not want to end it. They benefit too much from it and they do not care that a few brown people die in the process...they are unidentifed and don't really "exist". Besides, it isn't like they are white people.

You would be amazed at what little it would take you or I or anyone to become a criminal.

Like Paul Newman said 'If you were hungry enough you would eat a dog - yes and fight over the bones too'