Abandonment of Green Card

[wshc 46]

Even if it went the best possible way in front of a judge USCIS would have grounds for an appeal and requesting an immediate stay of any court order that would allow her entry under a situation where the court order "breaks the rules"

The law is the law at all levels and to get a proper win in any court proceeding you need to prove that you didn't violate the law. If you get caught going 80mph in a 45mph zone and you go in front of a judge you won't get the ticket thrown out because you didn't read the speed limit signs. To get it thrown out you'd need to either prove that you weren't exceeding the speed limit or that the speed limit wasn't properly posted (signs obscured or absent).

So while he is correct that it was a series of mistakes that lead to your current situation, in the end it would be quicker for you to just wait out the 3 year re-entry ban.

As egregious as the results of the mistakes are it doesn't relieve your responsibility to find out what she would need to return to the US. Several mistakes were made on your part before USCIS (CBP) took and negative action against her.

I take full responsibility for my mistakes and never said we did not make any. (But in our mistake, we show an honest effort to comply, which does not appear to be recognized by USCIS or CBP). If we had filed no paperwork and this all happened, then their actions would without a doubt be justified. (USCIS is not totally mistake free either in this case.) It is a big agency with too many visas and too many forms and too much overhead. The possibilities for error are too high. Any agency that recommends that you need a lawyer to navigate through their process needs to be reformed and cleaned out. (My German Greencard equivalent took three weeks and was hassle free. The same paperwork, marriage certificate etc... but once paperwork was filed, three weeks. Why can't the US do that?)

CBP is in a bad situation of having to enforce rules that they do not make, may not understand and probably do not have the authority to make their own judgements. Be real, the agent could have easily seen that we were no threat to this country, we had filed forms already, (although the wrong forms, they did show our intent and good faith effort to comply), and we were totally honest on everything. To be honest, if we had lied on a few points, my wife would be here now, but I don't lie and neither does my wife. The officer could have used common sense and his best judgement to allow entry. We would have continued with the process. There is no intention to fraud the government or live here illegally. When we travel we use airplanes and go through customes and controls so we would be real idiots to try and enter the country without proper paperwork. That is what I am saying, a human face to the process should be allowed. There should at least be some mechanism in place for flexibility in their decisions.

Have you been to a secondary detention at a Port of Entry? It is like the bar in Star Wars. While we were there, due to the lack of any privacy, I heard one guy being question about why he had only reported 6 arrests and not the 10 they showed. One guy was having his bags searched and they seemed to find several things they put in to evidence bags and they appeared to move him to a detention room. Another person had no answer to any questions about where he was going to stay and with whom or anything. And this was the norm, at least on the day we were there. So they want to kick out someone because a wrong form was used?? Give me a break. If anything we should be welcomed with open arms for returning from Europe and wanting to make a positive contribution to the US in this time of need. (Just as a note, the officer working with us was very professional and told us that he would not deny entry if he could, but his higher ranking colleague seemed to be enjoying kicking her out. I am not paranoid, but dealing with people all of my live, I know how to read them, and he was liking his power play.)

Btw.. if a person was speeding and when the officer pulled them over and saw a pregenant woman, I would hope he would offer to escort them to the hospital. If he did give them a ticket, I would hope that the judge would throw it out and then have a talk with the officer about humanity. Maybe the world isn't like that anymore.

Edited July 17, 2010 by wshc

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

I, and others, tried our best to bring light into the darkness and give you valuable advice on how to proceed from here. Mistakes have been made on your part in assuming that the Green Card is a joker for life, then again when entering the US without an appropriate visa, and a third time when filing the I-90.

CBP and USCIS are not responsible for any of this. As an American you should remember that many of the employees on those agencies, as well as the SSA and about any DMV office in the country, are packed with incompetent drones who don't know squat about their very own job. If you didn't remember, then consider yourself reminded of the fact the hard way. Trust me, as #######-retentive German I have had my share with the overwhelming incompetence of people in the US and still have to calm myself down day after day.

Your case is clear as a a glass of water. You don't need a lawyer; you just need to figure out if you are still a German resident and if that's the case you need to file the DCF. If you are not a German resident anymore, you need to go the IR-1 route. It's so simple a caveman can do it and there's no other way, even if you and the President were old buddies from college.

You can rant all about how f*cked up the US's immigration system is and you'll hear all of us chime in and give you two thumbs up. We know that, trust me, every single one of us. But your ideas about entering the country illegally, even when just made out of frustration, would result in a lifetime ban of ever entering the US again, as would a material misrepresentation, "lying" to USCIS.

So take a deep breath and forget how to sue the US Government, but instead familiarize yourself of the process like many here have done already. You are about to walk a road that has been traveled countless times and the directions are posted clearly once you understand how to read them. And if you don't, just ask.

Then, once you run for public office and get elected, don't forget to post here again so that we can make suggestions on how to change the system for the better.

Have a good night.

[wshc 46]

Thanks for the excellent advice. I will put it to good use and take it to heart. Sorry, I never meant to rant. Just been a long week.

btw..

It's so simple a caveman can do it and there's no other way, even if you and the President were old buddies from college.

I was in Hawaii the same time as the President and we are the same age, so we might have been in the same pre-school :-)

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Wshc,

I just want you to know that I'm not trying to chastise you in any way. I just wanted to point out that sometimes ideals and "What should be right" just get in the way when you are dealing with anything Government. I'm an idealist but I have to be a realist also. If you wife was still in the US then I'd be cheering for you to fight the good fight but you want and need to get your wife back as soon as possible which means that you have to figure out how to do that within the system.

Regarding the pregnant wife in a speeding car even USCIS has allowances for some situations such as forgiving misrepresentation (I know a Chinese national who entered using a modified passport with tourist Visa in it and was granted asylum 3 years later).

I hope your chosen path gets your wife here ASAP...

[wshc 46]

Wshc,

I just want you to know that I'm not trying to chastise you in any way. I just wanted to point out that sometimes ideals and "What should be right" just get in the way when you are dealing with anything Government. I'm an idealist but I have to be a realist also. If you wife was still in the US then I'd be cheering for you to fight the good fight but you want and need to get your wife back as soon as possible which means that you have to figure out how to do that within the system.

I hope your chosen path gets your wife here ASAP...

Thank you very much for the good wishes. As the days go by, the level head comes in to play and the emotional shock subsides. Moving forward now...

---

Quick questions about DCF - I like that route, and am working on that, but ran across this statement in an add from here Visa Web Page

"Can't I Just File Some Paperwork at the Embassy Overseas and Bring Her Home With Me?"

Not anymore. The Direct Consular Filing (DCF) option ended a couple of years ago in all but a few rare cases. When US immigration ended full visa processing at the US Embassy, they forced all marriage based petitions to undergo domestic screening with the USCIS. The day of 'bringing your wife home with you' may be over, but when done properly the CR-1 / K-3 process can go rather quickly.

Does anyone know if there is any truth in this, or is this in the ad to give people another reason to use the services of the company. (I am not despartely looking at every ad, but just gathering up as much info as possible, researching and planning.)

Thanks again for any advice you may offer. It is all appreciated.

[Nica_In_Love 98]

Hi there wshc!!

You might want to check this out:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/161412-living-in-germany-filing-dcf/

and

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/17511-dcf-in-frankfurt-started-last-week/

Good luck!!

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Quick questions about DCF - I like that route, and am working on that, but ran across this statement in an add from here Visa Web Page

"Can't I Just File Some Paperwork at the Embassy Overseas and Bring Her Home With Me?"

Not anymore. The Direct Consular Filing (DCF) option ended a couple of years ago in all but a few rare cases.

That is out-dated. Back when IMBRA & AWA were enacted I believe they had to send ALL petitions to USCIS for processing but DCF is back in place for a while now.

[mustafa1232 3]

Thanks for the tip about the web site. I will look in to it right now. This might not be appropriate, but if anyone has any comments, good or bad about the law office of "Schunklaw", let me know. I am in early stages of contact with that law firm.

Briefly, I know exactly what Mustafa is saying, and in a way he is correct. He is saying that this is a misunderstanding, it involves human error on everyone's part, and therefore needs a human decision and not a decision based on just forms, rules and regulations. That is something I was hoping for from USCIS but it will not come at the level we are forced to approach them at.

Anyway, Mustafa is saying that a judge just might be willing to "break the rules" if the case is presented in the correct manner. The judge has nothing to lose and does not work for USCIS so there is no concern about stepping on any toes and ruining his career. The cause must be just, and I think a case can be made for that. Of course, the case might be given to a judge that is not so inclined to be that flexible and it could all back fire.

I am going to be prepared to file the initial paperwork I-130 ASAP, after I consult with the lawyer face to face. My goal is to get my wife back to this country and then we will do anything the USCIS wants us to do paperwork wise. I checked out the congressman route, and that does not look to promising as far as expedit

Plan B is my wife goes to Mexico and walks across the river in Laredo and we wait for amenesty, or we say forget it all and stay in Germany. (Just kidding about the river part, but I bet that is a resentment all people waiting years to do immigration correctly have had.)

Everyone have a great weekend! I am going to try and recover my enthusiam and desire to come back and live in the greatest country in the world. It is, just somewhat frustrating at times.

hi wshc thanks for your comments you are right i always talk or if you saw my whole profile and saw and read my whole post i allways talk base of the common sense i allway talk deepley and base of the strong logic i never talk without logic and iam always talk base of the knowledge

i have a some suggestion and idea for you hope you consider and apply my idea when you start your case in court here is the suggestion when you hire a lawer and prepared your case with your lawer tell your lawer include this paragraph in your case which is some think like that . iam lawer of the petationer my honourable judge iam some think to request you hope you consider my request and apply this for usa immigration uscis officials it is better of immigration people and life time relieve and better for humanity ground hounarable judge here is my request iam request you to please give the order to uscis officials you can include in your usa immigration law this paragraph when the legal permenent resident (LPR) conditional 2 year resident or green card holder travel out side the usa or trip to another country uscis is the responsible and bond to inform that LPR OR 2 YEAR CONDITIONAL GREEN CARD HOLDER person he or she and issue him a warning letter that your conditional 2 year green card permenently expired soon uscis give you a warning if you cannot return to usa soon so please call uscis imedetaley for further imformation if you cannot contact uscis soon in that situtation uscis is not responsible if your lawer present this case in more better shape iam 100 percent sure judge will consider and thing about that request seriously and if the court judge give the order to uscis officials uscis immigration agency bound and responsible to include this paragraph in usa immigration law if this happen this is the revolution in the usa immigration law history i know some time this is not possible but i know if you have a strong decision making power no one can stop you and every think possible in this world because judge is the supreme commender of the country judge cause is only for give justice judge can do any think if he thought this is better for humanity and better for human kind and better for usa immigration people because judge every words is a law

[wshc 46]

thanks again for the tips and advice.

mini update:

I consulted with a lawyer, and he can help with the process, he says. The quickest personal appointment is in a few days, so although I hate to have to wait, if he has an answer that can solve all of this quickly, a few days are okay in the big picture of things.

I do have a quick question, if not a dumb one, and I know maybe it should be in a different thread, but I will ask it here anyway.

In reference to form I-130, question 16. As stated, my wife was denied access last week based on the wrong type of visa to enter the country. Is that considered an "immigration proceeding". I think it is not, but if it is, what type would it be? Removal or Exclusion/Deportation?

I'll post an update after the lawyers apppointment and thanks in advance to anyone that can help me with that little question. I know the lawyer could answer it for me, but I would like to have all paperwork correctly filled out before then.

[mustafa1232 3]

thanks again for the tips and advice.

mini update:

I consulted with a lawyer, and he can help with the process, he says. The quickest personal appointment is in a few days, so although I hate to have to wait, if he has an answer that can solve all of this quickly, a few days are okay in the big picture of things.

I do have a quick question, if not a dumb one, and I know maybe it should be in a different thread, but I will ask it here anyway.

In reference to form I-130, question 16. As stated, my wife was denied access last week based on the wrong type of visa to enter the country. Is that considered an "immigration proceeding". I think it is not, but if it is, what type would it be? Removal or Exclusion/Deportation?

I'll post an update after the lawyers apppointment and thanks in advance to anyone that can help me with that little question. I know the lawyer could answer it for me, but I would like to have all paperwork correctly filled out before then.

wshc hi can you tell me which type of wrong visa your wife apply for i mean is it visit visa bussines visa ext ext or some other caregory visa then i will be able to give you answer in detail

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

In reference to form I-130, question 16. As stated, my wife was denied access last week based on the wrong type of visa to enter the country. Is that considered an "immigration proceeding". I think it is not, but if it is, what type would it be? Removal or Exclusion/Deportation?

I don't believe so. If she signed a document cancelling her entry request then she wasn't even "refused entry" as she effectively withdrew her request and returned home.

[LotofPatience 65]

I, and others, tried our best to bring light into the darkness and give you valuable advice on how to proceed from here. Mistakes have been made on your part in assuming that the Green Card is a joker for life, then again when entering the US without an appropriate visa, and a third time when filing the I-90.

CBP and USCIS are not responsible for any of this. As an American you should remember that many of the employees on those agencies, as well as the SSA and about any DMV office in the country, are packed with incompetent drones who don't know squat about their very own job. If you didn't remember, then consider yourself reminded of the fact the hard way. Trust me, as #######-retentive German I have had my share with the overwhelming incompetence of people in the US and still have to calm myself down day after day.

Your case is clear as a a glass of water. You don't need a lawyer; you just need to figure out if you are still a German resident and if that's the case you need to file the DCF. If you are not a German resident anymore, you need to go the IR-1 route. It's so simple a caveman can do it and there's no other way, even if you and the President were old buddies from college.

You can rant all about how f*cked up the US's immigration system is and you'll hear all of us chime in and give you two thumbs up. We know that, trust me, every single one of us. But your ideas about entering the country illegally, even when just made out of frustration, would result in a lifetime ban of ever entering the US again, as would a material misrepresentation, "lying" to USCIS.

So take a deep breath and forget how to sue the US Government, but instead familiarize yourself of the process like many here have done already. You are about to walk a road that has been traveled countless times and the directions are posted clearly once you understand how to read them. And if you don't, just ask.

Then, once you run for public office and get elected, don't forget to post here again so that we can make suggestions on how to change the system for the better.

Have a good night.

This is the matured advice, using common sense.

Loto

[Boiler 46,232]

I don't believe so. If she signed a document cancelling her entry request then she wasn't even "refused entry" as she effectively withdrew her request and returned home.

Unfortunately not:

You have been determined to be inadmissible under section212(a)(7)(A)(i)(I) of the INA;

[wshc 46]

As promised an update after my consultation with a lawyer:

basically, as everyone here said and I agree, the Government made no mistakes (that can be proved) and we made all of the wrong moves (based on some bad advice and bad reading of procedures on my part). Therefore we are hosed.

This is the course of action now -

File I-130

After that is approved, file I-485

Then there will be an interview in Frankfurt, where my wife will be denied a visa until after her three year period or penalty for overstaying here visa expires. However, after the visa is denied, a waiver will be filed, but it will be very difficulty to say that staying in Germany is a hardship. As the lawyer said, if my wife was in a third world country or somewhere that she was endangered, or homeless without a chance where she was, then the chances of getting a waiver would be greater, but coming from a European country it will probably not happen, so we are looking at a three year wait.

This is incredible and I wish everyone going through this process the best of luck.

Does anybody know how much trouble it would be for an American and a German to immigrate to Canada?

Thanks again for all of the information and advice.

[sachinky 465]

There is no I-485 for a IR-1 case.

Have you looked into the DCF option -- would that work for you guys?

The forms involved are an I-130, DS230, DS3032, and I-864. And the waiver, in your case.