Filipinos Against Arizona Immigration Law SB1070

[Tahoma 2,292]

Some people who are againts this law is stupid.

Is they?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Personally I believe that our IDs should easily identify that we are legally present in the US, see my previous post here.

I know a lot of people will compare this the the Nazis restricting travel through personal identification papers but it's already happening here. Try to board a plane without ID. Try to check-in to a hotel without ID.

The "safeguard" against racial profiling in this law is the the LE Officer can't just stop someone and ask for proof of legal presence, they need a valid reason for contact. Of course there will always be people who abuse the system but they will be the minority. The upside of this is that if (I lived in AZ and) know the house next to me is full of illegals then I can call the cops on them when they're partying too loud at 11pm and when the cops come they can ask of proof of legal presence when they roll-up on a house of 25 non-related people.

Not a perfect solution but I'm in favor of anything that puts USC & LPR rights & protection above the entitlements the illegals seem to believe they have here.

For domestic flights, you only need to show a state ID or DL, just like in a routine traffic stop. Hotels, the same thing. In fact, I challenge you to find any other time where citizens are selectively required to prove their legal status based on mere suspicion.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

For domestic flights, you only need to show a state ID or DL, just like in a routine traffic stop. Hotels, the same thing. In fact, I challenge you to find any other time where citizens are selectively required to prove their legal status based on mere suspicion.

Why do I need to prove that? My statement was that the DL/State ID card that my wife (LPR) and I presently carry at all times already:

1) Is routinely asked for.

2) Proves our current legal presence in the US.

As for LE Officers acting based on suspicion, they already do that. If they see a someone acting suspicious they stop and talk to them, ask for ID and inquire as to what they're doing. It's common in neighborhoods that have a high rate of drugs & prostitution. This just expands that to require them to confirm the legal status if they have reason to suspect the subject isn't here legally.

Seriously, if the whole "Driving while brown" issue is your biggest concern they why not advocate expanding it to requiring them to determine legal status of everyone they make contact with and have cause to confirm ID? Then all of us white guys (and gals) will be subject to it also!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Why do I need to prove that? My statement was that the DL/State ID card that my wife (LPR) and I presently carry at all times already:

1) Is routinely asked for.

2) Proves our current legal presence in the US.

As for LE Officers acting based on suspicion, they already do that. If they see a someone acting suspicious they stop and talk to them, ask for ID and inquire as to what they're doing. It's common in neighborhoods that have a high rate of drugs & prostitution. This just expands that to require them to confirm the legal status if they have reason to suspect the subject isn't here legally.

Seriously, if the whole "Driving while brown" issue is your biggest concern they why not advocate expanding it to requiring them to determine legal status of everyone they make contact with and have cause to confirm ID? Then all of us white guys (and gals) will be subject to it also!

1. It's a false argument because the issue isn't about having to show ID, but to prove ones citizenship based on mere suspicion.

2. That is not entirely accurate. But for the sake of argument, if that were accurate, then why would you ever have to show additional documentation verifying your legal status, which SB1070 gives local law enforcement the authority to do? Secondly, you are required to show a valid DL during a routine traffic stop. You are not required by law to provide identification to a law officer every time you are asked. They can detain you on reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed, but not providing ID is not a crime. Even if you are pulled over and didn't have your DL with you, it's a misdemeanor.

I don't want to have to prove my citizenship to law enforcement on a routine basis. That is harassment. I've done nothing wrong and asking me to prove my legal status without probable cause violates my constitutional rights and privileges. Citizens should be free to go about their own business without being harassed by cops. You may be willing to give up your constitutional rights over this issue, but don't count me in or most Americans.

Edited July 20, 2010 by El Buscador

[Tahoma 2,292]

Food for thought: it is estimated that more than 20 million American citizens do not have government-issued photo ID.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Food for thought: it is estimated that more than 20 million American citizens do not have government-issued photo ID.

That's ok, the good Sheriff Arpaio has plenty of tents to house them.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

1. It's a false argument because the issue isn't about having to show ID, but to prove ones citizenship based on mere suspicion.

It's not even an argument, just a statement really that we are used to presenting ID on a regular basis already. Read the first line "My Statement was that the DL/State ID card that my wife (LPR) and I presently carry at all times already" and then I made 2 statements, both of which are true.

2. That is not entirely accurate. But for the sake of argument, if that were accurate, then why would you ever have to show additional documentation verifying your legal status, which SB1070 gives local law enforcement the authority to do? Secondly, you are required to show a valid DL during a routine traffic stop. You are not required by law to provide identification to a law officer every time you are asked. They can detain you on reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed, but not providing ID is not a crime. Even if you are pulled over and didn't have your DL with you, it's a misdemeanor.

Actually in some states it is a misdemeanor and you can be detained until they are able to make a positive ID. But again you are trying to redirect my statement. My DL/State ID required me to prove my legal presence. Is there an endorsement on it that says "USC" no but by completing to process to get it I have proven that I am here legally.

I don't want to have to prove my citizenship to law enforcement on a routine basis. That is harassment. I've done nothing wrong and asking me to prove my legal status without probable cause violates my constitutional rights and privileges. Citizens should be free to go about their own business without being harassed by cops. You may be willing to give up your constitutional rights over this issue, but don't count me in or most Americans.

This is a false argument on your part. First, the law requires the contact to be for some reason other than suspicion of illegal presence. Second if you are having this type of contact with the police on a routine basis then you have bigger issues that proving your lawful presence. Citizen are free to go about their business without being harassed by the cops unless they are routinely speeding, jaywalking, driving with lights out, physically assaulting others or in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Besides probable cause is covered by the requirement of reasonable suspicion of illegal status

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Food for thought: it is estimated that more than 20 million American citizens do not have government-issued photo ID.

Where does this come from? My late mother and her husband were (by their own choice) members of the homeless masses. They both had State Issued ID. You need it to get food stamps, free cell phones and all of the other hand-out they qualified for simply because they didn't want (yes there were several attempts to give them a hand-up and they refused) to be productive members of society but they had no problem spending OUR tax money.

[A and T 82]

but but but... I DO KNOW THE Filipino Community, verra well ! At least the various groups in Dallas and Houston... I thought this was a 'national organisation', though, that condemned the AZ law ?

The bigger problem, that I have, though - with this statement (back in post 0) is this -

Even citizens and legal immigrants caught not carrying proof of their U.S. legal status could be charged as felons.

No one will be charged. They will be detained until their immigration status is checked. No one will be charged with a felony based on 'the stop' - they'd only be charged with WHAT the stoppable offense was, maybe, if it all, and then !! the immigration status is checked whilst they are detained. No Status? They're to be handed over to ICE.

Where the @#$@$ is this 'felony charge' in the AZ LAW? IMO, the 'writer' of that piece decided to use 'charged' language, hoping to incite a riot.

But the problem is people will be profiled cops that just don't like mexicans will pull over any mexican for an "immigration check" detaining them, while detained they will lose jobs im sure. If the detainment check and time frame is anything like the uscis 6 to 8 month background check time frame, it will be a problem

Eventually that will spill over into all Americans, (not if you just look mexican) they will detain anyone and hold them just because they don't like them. If a cop stops you and asks to search the car and you ask for a warrant in order for them to search they could easily just detain you regardless, just to teach you a lesson

it will mean the police have more power and over all citizens will lose rights , but they will have many lawsuits once it happens. Just wait until the states detain legal citizens , lets see if they can handle the lawsuits

[evli1966 88]

Where does this come from? My late mother and her husband were (by their own choice) members of the homeless masses. They both had State Issued ID. You need it to get food stamps, free cell phones and all of the other hand-out they qualified for simply because they didn't want (yes there were several attempts to give them a hand-up and they refused) to be productive members of society but they had no problem spending OUR tax money.

I agree.

Tahoma post a link to your reference.

Steve showing proper ID domestically for flights, hotels bank transactions etc. is not to prove your immigration status. It is to prove identity. Now if your flying internationally the US passport with proper Visas are required and you are required to have these documents on you.

Also trust me if you are anywhere near an ICE bust and your not carrying the required documents you are being detained and you could have been swept up in what ever happen innocently or just caught the eye of an ICE agent.

So stop lying to yourself and carry your proper ID and documents.

[evli1966 88]

But the problem is people will be profiled cops that just don't like mexicans will pull over any mexican for an "immigration check" detaining them, while detained they will lose jobs im sure. If the detainment check and time frame is anything like the uscis 6 to 8 month background check time frame, it will be a problem

Eventually that will spill over into all Americans, (not if you just look mexican) they will detain anyone and hold them just because they don't like them. If a cop stops you and asks to search the car and you ask for a warrant in order for them to search they could easily just detain you regardless, just to teach you a lesson

it will mean the police have more power and over all citizens will lose rights , but they will have many lawsuits once it happens. Just wait until the states detain legal citizens , lets see if they can handle the lawsuits

Please no officer is going to risk being sued because he does not like your skin color. geez.

Yes they can detain you for not allowing them to search your vehicle and you wont eve be arrested unless the dogs find something. This already happens to any US citizen.

If your so worried about police having power over you and your rights well your fighting the wrong battle. The police are being given the ability to enforce a law that Feds are failing to enforce by choice. the Battle you need to fight is to get Obama and his liberal/progressive buds out of office and shrink the government; bigger government more power less individual rights is what they stand for.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Where does this come from?

His rectal cavity. Unless he means 11 million that don't have the ID because of not having a legal presence, and assorted minors that are not old enough to require photo id yet.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Actually in some states it is a misdemeanor and you can be detained until they are able to make a positive ID. But again you are trying to redirect my statement. My DL/State ID required me to prove my legal presence. Is there an endorsement on it that says "USC" no but by completing to process to get it I have proven that I am here legally.

Hasn't been true since the SCOTUS decided that US Citizens cannot be required to carry identification. There was a case in San Diego, I believe, where a jogger was charged with vagrancy for not having any identification on him. That was found to be unconstitutional.

[Atencio 43]

Where does this come from? My late mother and her husband were (by their own choice) members of the homeless masses. They both had State Issued ID. You need it to get food stamps, free cell phones and all of the other hand-out they qualified for simply because they didn't want (yes there were several attempts to give them a hand-up and they refused) to be productive members of society but they had no problem spending OUR tax money.

No, I am not in the discussion...hehe

Just adding a reference

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_39242.pdf

Edited July 20, 2010 by Atencio

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Hasn't been true since the SCOTUS decided that US Citizens cannot be required to carry identification. There was a case in San Diego, I believe, where a jogger was charged with vagrancy for not having any identification on him. That was found to be unconstitutional.

have a link or two? I would like to see how it's unconstitutional for the police to require ID if they make contact based on reasonable suspicion of something. How can they clear you if they don't know who you are?