U.S. Lags World in Grasp of Genetics and Acceptance of Evolution

[Ban Hammer 13,335]

Now we're in full existentialist philosopher mode the waters of this debate are now very muddy indeed.

w00t! Bring on the Nietzsche!

you want nessa's cat? he's not too friendly

[rclouse 0]

Well believe whatever you wish.

Why thank you. I believe I'll have a beer.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Of course I find it very difficult to believe that there are people who really think that the earth was created in 6 solar days and materialised fully formed and populated in a spontaneous puff of logic.

I also find a lot of things difficult to believe.

With all due respect, Stina, it wasn't until fairly recently (last 100 years) that some sects of Christianity began to take a very literal approach to every part of the Bible. The story of creation in the Book of Genesis was never meant as a historical, scientific account. And accepting that humans have evolved doesn't mean a Christian must reject the Bible. It means that as a Christian you accept that truth and fact are two different concepts, and the truth that God is the Creator doesn't have to be confined to believing the story of creation as a factual account of how God literally created the heavens and the earth.

With all due respect, Steven, that is your interpretation and it's not your job to challenge or change others beliefs or tell her what it means to be a Christian...

Really? And just what is your job here on VJ - making sure to point out when you think I'm wrong? I smell hypocracy.

[chri'stina 190]

I have a question. Does the Bible actually say God can do anything? Or is that just a popular assumption?

Here are some examples:

Jeremiah 32:27

27 "I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?

Luke 1:37 "For nothing is impossible with God." (spoken by an Angel to Mary Jesus' mother)

Job 42:1-2

1 Then Job replied to the LORD :

2 "I know that you can do all things;

no plan of yours can be thwarted.

Psalm 115: 3

But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases.

Ephesians 3:20-21 "Now to Him(God) who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen."

Jeremiah 32:17

17 "Ah, Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you."

Genesis 18: 13-14

13 Then the LORD said to Abraham, "Why did Sarah laugh and say, 'Will I really have a child, now that I am old?' 14 Is anything too hard for the LORD ? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son."

Luke 18:27 Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

There are a couple indisputable facts to point out.

* the earth is about 4.5 billion years old (and it wasn't build in 7 days)

* life emerged on earth around 2.5 billion years ago (and not 6 days after the earth was built)

* photosynthesis makes all life on earth possible (plants...can't live without 'em)

* life evolves just as it has for billions of years (we used to be apes...right?)

* genetics indicated a common primordial origin for all life (everything is related)

[incanada1234 0]

That's not what I said. You're asking me to agree to a set of assumptions without asking what they mean - 'perfect' and 'anything' are questions of interpretation and definition, not absolutes.

I think God created the universe according to a set of logical physical laws that mankind can observe and manipulate.

Its no coincidence that animals can't speak - any biologist will tell you that is the direct result of brain size and the lack of vocal cords. If vocal cords aren't needed to speak why bother to create them?

I do admire your way of thinking, fishdude (this post and the other post you made on the 1st page). You ask good questions that make me think, and I've often questioned a lot of this stuff too. As far as evolution though, I just can't accept it. Not just because of what the Bible tells me but also the fact that there's such a huge gap. What kind of proof is there that we evolved from, what, apes? Where's the missing link? And I mean, the thought that we started as some little tadpole like creature...come on. I can see a 5 year old believing that, but grown men and women? How could we evolve in 6,000 years? I know I know, the earth is hundreds of millions of years old, etc etc. What is carbon dating and how exactly does it "prove" that? How can anyone prove that the earth has been around for millions of years? You can't! Scientists simply cannot recreate that. They're basically guessing - so do you want to put your faith in men or God?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I know it is a cliche but the 'world is flat' really applies here. Represents a fundamental paradigm shift between the broad validity of scientific observation vs stubborn superstition.

[incanada1234 0]

Oh yay, roi aggie is about to add his one cent's worth.

[PlatyPius 5]

"When we hear the ancient bells growling on a Sunday morning we ask ourselves: Is it really possible! This, for a jew, crucified two thousand years ago, who said he was God's son? The proof of such a claim is lacking. Certainly the Christian religion is an antiquity projected into our times from remote prehistory; and the fact that the claim is believed - whereas one is otherwise so strict in examining pretensions - is perhaps the most ancient piece of this heritage. A god who begets children with a mortal woman; a sage who bids men work no more, have no more courts, but look for the signs of the impending end of the world; a justice that accepts the innocent as a vicarious sacrifice; someone who orders his disciples to drink his blood; prayers for miraculous interventions; sins perpetrated against a god, atoned for by a god; fear of a beyond to which death is the portal; the form of the cross as a symbol in a time that no longer knows the function and ignominy of the cross -- how ghoulishly all this touches us, as if from the tomb of a primeval past! Can one believe that such things are still believed?"

Nietzsche :: Human, all too Human

[Jenn! 918]

So...fossils, were they planted by the atheists?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

I have a question. Does the Bible actually say God can do anything? Or is that just a popular assumption?

Here are some examples:

Ok, thanks.

Now about the Wikipedia excerpt. Can God tell a lie? And what are your thoughts on The Omnipotence Paradox?

[chri'stina 190]

I know it is a cliche but the 'world is flat' really applies here. Represents a fundamental paradigm shift between the broad validity of scientific observation vs stubborn superstition.

"The world is flat" was not and is not a biblical doctrine ( was "church" doctrine yes), creation is.

Isaiah 40:22

22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,

and its people are like grasshoppers.

He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,

and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Edited August 11, 2006 by stina&suj

[incanada1234 0]

So...fossils, were they planted by the atheists?

um yeaaah...

[*Robert* 2]

Oh yay, roi aggie is about to add his one cent's worth.

Oh yay, incanada is a...

not worth it...

[Ban Hammer 13,335]

So...fossils, were they planted by the atheists?

bush did it