U.S. Lags World in Grasp of Genetics and Acceptance of Evolution

[chri'stina 190]

.. What spiritual hidden meaning is there to "and God said let there be light"?

Its obvious he was meaning Thomas Edison.

ahh I never realized that!!

Edited August 11, 2006 by stina&suj

[incanada1234 0]

Of course I find it very difficult to believe that there are people who really think that the earth was created in 6 solar days and materialised fully formed and populated in a spontaneous puff of logic. The issue there is whether or not you regard God to "working to a very specific pattern based on real, observable physical laws" or as some sort of Wizard.

Well, God can do whatever he wants right? So why wouldn't He be able to create the earth in 6 days? I mean, he's GOD. Are you saying that you don't believe He can do anthing and everything?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Of course I find it very difficult to believe that there are people who really think that the earth was created in 6 solar days and materialised fully formed and populated in a spontaneous puff of logic.

I also find a lot of things difficult to believe.

With all due respect, Stina, it wasn't until fairly recently (last 100 years) that some sects of Christianity began to take a very literal approach to every part of the Bible. The story of creation in the Book of Genesis was never meant as a historical, scientific account. And accepting that humans have evolved doesn't mean a Christian must reject the Bible. It means that as a Christian you accept that truth and fact are two different concepts, and the truth that God is the Creator doesn't have to be confined to believing the story of creation as a factual account of how God literally created the heavens and the earth.

Well that is opinion/belief just as mine is. And I doubt whether the disciples of Jesus in the N.T. didn't take the Old Testament literally. I am pretty sure that the first churches of Christianity (new testament is full of them) DID take what was written in the O.T. as literal. With it they based their belief that Jesus was the Messiah, as prophesied in the O.T.

It's just about being secular these days that people don't want to believe everything the bible says while being a Christian. I'm not saying if you believe in evolution you are not a Christian. I know there is a debate whether the 6 days really meant 6 days or thousands of years (in which evolution could have taken place but sparked by God). Either way, I still believe God was behind it and that is my belief. I know it's considered idiotic by some but should I really care?

That's what I don't understand - why evolution somehow precludes the existence of God.

The reasoning seems to be that certain aspects of the bible must be taken literally, whereas the broader spirit of say Jesus' teachings is primarily metaphorical - as way of living philosophically with God, guidelines to live your life by. The way in which the creation story (and also the judgment) is taken so literally by some, appears to me to be totally at odds with that philosophy. That's how it seems to me at least.

Jesus made it clear when he was telling a parable, he didn't say "this really happened". There is no such hint in the biblical account about creation that it's a parable or metaphor. It is written as really happening, and Jesus' parables were obviously parables that he explained afterwards.

Perhaps because back then mankind didn't have a handle on advanced physics, quantum mechanics and sub-atomic particles

You can't explain those concepts to primitive people's living in the ancient world.

So then the bible should have just said simply "God made the world" instead of making it a detailed 6 day creation. What would be the point unless you believe a man made up the bible, so a man decided to make the creation story sound cool since he didn't know any better. Sorry I just don't buy it. I am sure many people do believe that the bible story is made up by men and that is why they understandably don't believe in the bible. IMO either the whole bible is wrong, or it's all right. I am not going to say the account of creation was only a metaphor. Metaphors usually mean something...the parables Jesus taught had a meaning. What spiritual hidden meaning is there to "and God said let there be light"?

So, as usual we'll have to agree to disagree.

Perhaps I shouldn't apply logic to this argument - but it seems to me that Evolution and the Big Bang theory do not pretend to be the absolute truth, only that they are the best current explanations according to the available physical evidence.

What I have trouble with is that denying the evidence that life, the universe and everything were created according to recognisable and observable physical laws casts doubt on the entirety of scientific understanding. Which gets us into really contentious issues - because if, for example, living beings are not made up of cells, chromosomes and DNA why are scientists able to observe that? more to the point - how are they able to cure diseases using that knowledge....?

Likewise what about 'cause and effect' physics? There is clearly a law of gravity, that law provides understanding not only of the concept of time, but also of how physical object behaves in space. Based on that law of gravity we (among other things) design airplanes and build rockets that can escape the earths's atmosphere - clearly that law existed before scientists discovered it.

Similarly with evolution - there is clear evidence that life adapts to the environment, again this is based on observable evidence. Certain whales have vestigial limbs, humans have webbed fingers, tail bones etc.

Perhaps I'm asking to many questions - but I can't rationalise the holding of a specific piece of biblical scripture to be literal truth when it contradicts virtually the entire philosophy of human scientific experience - an experience which almost all of us rely on (in some form or another) in our daily lives.

Again I don't see how that precludes the existence of God. If God created logic as well as the laws of nature and the physical universe, why would he then create the world in total disregard for those laws?

Again it comes down to whether you see God as a force that creates according to recognisable and observable physical rules, or through some form of illogical sorcery.

Edited August 11, 2006 by erekose

[PlatyPius 5]

Well, I'LL say that he can't to anything and everything. See avatar at left.

People who believe in the literal creation story (take your pick...there are two in the Bible) amuse me. They believe the hocus-pocus version of creation as told by a guy living in a tent 3000 years ago, but scoff at the American Indian creation stories which aren't any more hokey. In fact, I think the American Indian ones are LESS hokey, because they generally accept that the story is a tale, not literal.

As long as the US is populated with the most conservative Xians on the planet (and we are), we'll always be the kid who's mocked for being a freak. Be all noble if you want, but those in other countries have learned something that the US has not.... religion was created by man, not some dude in the sky.

[chri'stina 190]

Well, I'LL say that he can't to anything and everything. See avatar at left.

People who believe in the literal creation story (take your pick...there are two in the Bible) amuse me. They believe the hocus-pocus version of creation as told by a guy living in a tent 3000 years ago, but scoff at the American Indian creation stories which aren't any more hokey. In fact, I think the American Indian ones are LESS hokey, because they generally accept that the story is a tale, not literal.

As long as the US is populated with the most conservative Xians on the planet (and we are), we'll always be the kid who's mocked for being a freak. Be all noble if you want, but those in other countries have learned something that the US has not.... religion was created by man, not some dude in the sky.

Beliefs are interesting things, huh? You have some, and look I have some too! We all have them! And what they are, are beliefs.

[Jenn! 918]

I'm having deja vu...

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...ic=7217&hl=

[rclouse 0]

Well, God can do whatever he wants right? So why wouldn't He be able to create the earth in 6 days? I mean, he's GOD. Are you saying that you don't believe He can do anthing and everything?

Couldn't God have created evolution? If you're right, why would God trick us with all this scientific evidence supporting the theory of evolution?

This is one place where Islam is better than fundamentalist Christianity (or Judaism for that matter). In Islam Adam wasn't the first man, he was the first prophet. He was the first man to understand that spirits or multiple gods weren't behind creation, and for that God gave Adam revelations, one of which was the realization that he (and Eve, his wife) were living in the Garden of Eden. God told Adam about the Tree of Knowledge, not Satan, and did not forbid Adam from eating from the Tree. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit and gained knowledge, God gave them a choice: lose the knowledge (embrace ignorance) and remain in the Garden of Eden, or keep the knowledge but leave the Garden forever. Adam and Eve (both of them) chose to keep the knowledge and experience life based in understanding and learning.

Anyway, the point is this: Adam wasn't the first man, there were aother men before him. So Islam is compatible with science, including the scientific theory of evolution.

BTW, that little story is what I remember from the Koran for Dummies book. I might not have it completely correct.

[PlatyPius 5]

If you read the Bible, Adam wasn't the first man either. Maybe the first man that YHVH made, but not the first.

Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel. He leaves Eden and wanders off to the Land of Nod and shacks up with some chick there. Where the hell did they come from? A: They were already there. They were the original Pagans...the ones who came before YHVH was done playing with Legos and getting his butt wiped by Mommy.

[incanada1234 0]

Well, I'LL say that he can't to anything and everything.

Yes, but I didn't ask you. erekose says he's a Christian, which is why I asked HIM.

[chri'stina 190]

If you read the Bible, Adam wasn't the first man either. Maybe the first man that YHVH made, but not the first.

Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel. He leaves Eden and wanders off to the Land of Nod and shacks up with some chick there. Where the hell did they come from? A: They were already there. They were the original Pagans...the ones who came before YHVH was done playing with Legos and getting his butt wiped by Mommy.

Ummm yes I know this will sound crazy to ppl who don't believe the bible. But have you read in the bible how old people lived to in those days? You don't think Adam and Eve could have had a LOT of kids during their lifetime? Again we are getting in to beliefs, but there is a biblical explanation, but since you don't believe the bible then you won't believe it anyway.

Edited August 11, 2006 by stina&suj

[PlatyPius 5]

Well, I'LL say that he can't to anything and everything.

Yes, but I didn't ask you. erekose says he's a Christian, which is why I asked HIM.

Testy, testy.... look who forgot their Valium today.

[incanada1234 0]

Couldn't God have created evolution? If you're right, why would God trick us with all this scientific evidence supporting the theory of evolution?

Here's the thing - He COULD have, yes. Obviously, as I said, I believe God can do whatever He wants, including create a "big bang". But all I'm saying is that that's not what the BIBLE says. If the Bible said "On the first day, He created a Big Bang theory. On the second day, he created a single-celled organism that, in time, evolved to become a human, made in His image" then I would believe it.

[PlatyPius 5]

If you read the Bible, Adam wasn't the first man either. Maybe the first man that YHVH made, but not the first.

Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel. He leaves Eden and wanders off to the Land of Nod and shacks up with some chick there. Where the hell did they come from? A: They were already there. They were the original Pagans...the ones who came before YHVH was done playing with Legos and getting his butt wiped by Mommy.

Ummm yes I know this will sound crazy to ppl who don't believe the bible. But have you read in the bible how old people lived to in those days? You don't think Adam and Eve could have had a LOT of kids during their lifetime? Again we are getting in to beliefs, but there is a biblical explanation, but since you don't believe the bible then you won't believe it anyway.

Okay, so everyone on the planet is inbred then. Yeah, that's a much better thought than thinking that there were others here first.

lol

[incanada1234 0]

Well, I'LL say that he can't to anything and everything.

Yes, but I didn't ask you. erekose says he's a Christian, which is why I asked HIM.

Testy, testy.... look who forgot their Valium today.

I said it as nicely as I could.

[chri'stina 190]

Couldn't God have created evolution? If you're right, why would God trick us with all this scientific evidence supporting the theory of evolution?

Here's the thing - He COULD have, yes. Obviously, as I said, I believe God can do whatever He wants, including create a "big bang". But all I'm saying is that that's not what the BIBLE says. If the Bible said "On the first day, He created a Big Bang theory. On the second day, he created a single-celled organism that, in time, evolved to become a human, made in His image" then I would believe it.

But didn't you know that believing the bible is fundamentalist? Be more secular!!! Don't take a stand on anything! If you let your beliefs get affected by society and it's beliefs, then and only then are you a good Christian girl Marissa.

If you read the Bible, Adam wasn't the first man either. Maybe the first man that YHVH made, but not the first.

Adam and Eve have Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel. He leaves Eden and wanders off to the Land of Nod and shacks up with some chick there. Where the hell did they come from? A: They were already there. They were the original Pagans...the ones who came before YHVH was done playing with Legos and getting his butt wiped by Mommy.

Ummm yes I know this will sound crazy to ppl who don't believe the bible. But have you read in the bible how old people lived to in those days? You don't think Adam and Eve could have had a LOT of kids during their lifetime? Again we are getting in to beliefs, but there is a biblical explanation, but since you don't believe the bible then you won't believe it anyway.

Okay, so everyone on the planet is inbred then. Yeah, that's a much better thought than thinking that there were others here first.

lol

Well believe whatever you wish.