Implicitly dated photos -- how useful?

[ReconditeGrape 0]

While reviewing photos to include as evidence of meeting for our K-1 petition, I noticed that most of them weren't date-stamped, but a few were "implicitly date stamped". Specifically, in these photos I was wearing a t-shirt that referenced the outcome of the 2010 NCAA men's basketball tournament.

To me this seems sufficient on its face to prove that the photos were taken within the last 2 years, barring some bizarre scheme to print dozens of t-shirts with every conceivable winner of the tournament (and then posing for photos with each of them on) more than 2 years ago. But I don't know if my logic is in alignment with the USCIS -- do they accept something like this as proof of date, or are they sticklers for date-stamped photos (even though they would be much easier to fake)?

Does anyone have experience with this? I imagine that there are several analogous situations -- e.g. taking a photo with a dated newspaper in the background -- although they're probably rare. From posts on this forum and some random USCIS documents, I've heard that photos are only "secondary evidence," but it's unclear to me why this should be, as long as they contain conclusive proof of date.

Btw, we plan to submit these photos in the context of the following other evidence:

1. Transcripts from the college we both attended during the same time period over the last 4 years. (some of the photos are from here)

2. Our debit card records from the last 6 months, showing that we were in the same cities at the same times and had the exact same pattern of travel (i.e. City A on day 1, City B midway across the country on day 2, City C on day 3), including several highlighted cases where we made purchases at the same venue on the same day.

3. Some (unfortunately faint) passport stamps showing entry into the same country on the same day.

[Audy_Rob 26]

Nobody (or almost nobody) puts dates on the photos. Print the photos on some regular paper and add an annotation of who is in the photo, date, time, place. Etc...

The evidence you described should be enough.

[katie & sifa 25]

Include whatever pictures you like, but I wouldn't count on USCIS examining them to the point that they notice what shirt you are wearing and make the connection that it must have been taken within this year. We did date stamp a few of our pictures when we were together knowing that we were going to be filing the petition, but for most of them we just wrote on the back who was in them, the date they were taken and where we were. Don't stress too much about the pictures

[ReconditeGrape 0]

Thanks guys!

katie & sifa, I agree that I probably can't rely on USCIS to draw inferences based on the implicit information in the photos alone. I guess I was wondering whether I should explicitly mention it: in my current draft where I summarize the documentation I've included, I say something like "although this photo is not date-stamped, please note that the petitioner's t-shirt displays the winner of the 2010 NCAA basketball tournament, which was held in March and April 2010".

[JlovesA 109]

Thanks guys!

katie & sifa, I agree that I probably can't rely on USCIS to draw inferences based on the implicit information in the photos alone. I guess I was wondering whether I should explicitly mention it: in my current draft where I summarize the documentation I've included, I say something like "although this photo is not date-stamped, please note that the petitioner's t-shirt displays the winner of the 2010 NCAA basketball tournament, which was held in March and April 2010".

Considering photographs are considered secondary evidence and are not the most important part of your package, I wouldn't worry about even trying to draw attention to your shirt.

Edited July 9, 2010 by JlovesA

[070809 0]

Same here, I'm a photographer so I didn't really want to ruin the pics with the dates stamped on them! So what we did are just to print out descriptions on a white paper and pasted the pics on the side. Here's ours

What will be your best friend will be the highlighter! Highlight those boarding passes, those debit card transactions and annotate them if you're being very ####### like what we are!

[ReconditeGrape 0]

Same here, I'm a photographer so I didn't really want to ruin the pics with the dates stamped on them! So what we did are just to print out descriptions on a white paper and pasted the pics on the side. Here's ours

What will be your best friend will be the highlighter! Highlight those boarding passes, those debit card transactions and annotate them if you're being very ####### like what we are!

Nice work. It turns out I do have a few low-quality photographs with datestamps that I can send, though the vast majority don't have any. Sadly I didn't know anything about this process the last time we made a trip together, so I don't have any travel documents beyond what I can print off the internet. Still, I'm hoping that the debit card records showing us at the exact same locations in different parts of the country sequentially (tied together with informal travel records like itineraries printed off the internet, plus a lot of highlighting), will be enough.

That actually raises another question -- if you've been together a ton over the past two years, is it helpful or counterproductive to send in evidence of additional encounters? For instance, we've been together in the US for quite some time, and much of our best evidence is associated with that (i.e. the debit card records, university transcripts, some dated or implicitly dated photographs), but I've also visited her at her home abroad. If the evidence of visiting her at her home is weaker (i.e. just passport stamps and a few dated photographs), should I just omit it, lest I confuse the examiner into requesting additional evidence for an inessential part of our case?

[TBoneTX 46,174]

It never hurts to send additional evidence of encounters. USCIS may not care about it, but the consulate might -- & USCIS sends to the consulate everything that YOU send (except magnetic or electronic media). With what country will you be dealing?

Regarding Ecuador, for example, it's imperative to front-load a K-1 or CR-1 petition with "proof of bona fide relationship," because the consulate may very well not accept or acknowledge the evidence when it's brought to the visa interview, and then claim that "insufficient evidence was provided."

[ReconditeGrape 0]

It never hurts to send additional evidence of encounters. USCIS may not care about it, but the consulate might -- & USCIS sends to the consulate everything that YOU send (except magnetic or electronic media). With what country will you be dealing?

Regarding Ecuador, for example, it's imperative to front-load a K-1 or CR-1 petition with "proof of bona fide relationship," because the consulate may very well not accept or acknowledge the evidence when it's brought to the visa interview, and then claim that "insufficient evidence was provided."

I am dealing with South Korea, which is a participant in the Visa Waiver Program and presumably not considered a high-risk consulate. As a result, I think that the benefit of this additional information at the consulate stage might be slight, and I'm wondering if the risk from making my I-129F petition harder to review outweighs this.

Thanks.

[twowls 217]

I am dealing with South Korea, which is a participant in the Visa Waiver Program and presumably not considered a high-risk consulate. As a result, I think that the benefit of this additional information at the consulate stage might be slight, and I'm wondering if the risk from making my I-129F petition harder to review outweighs this.

Thanks.

Yeah I think for USCIS you want the basics handled in a clear, concise way. Don't muddy the waters and make them work their brains overmuch. Weak passport stamps, couple of pics, you're good. Really. The passport ink might be weak, but it's very real. I think you're fine and that you shouldn't overspice the soup beyond all reason. Take the extra spices to the consulate. I think your proof of meeting will be clear to them.

[ReconditeGrape 0]

Yeah I think for USCIS you want the basics handled in a clear, concise way. Don't muddy the waters and make them work their brains overmuch. Weak passport stamps, couple of pics, you're good. Really. The passport ink might be weak, but it's very real. I think you're fine and that you shouldn't overspice the soup beyond all reason. Take the extra spices to the consulate. I think your proof of meeting will be clear to them.

Thanks -- this was my guess, but I wasn't sure.

My current plan is to drop all evidence of my trip to South Korea, which was weak anyway and was probably a distraction. I think I might keep evidence of two other trips, though -- my thought is that it's unclear which kinds of evidence the examiner particularly prizes, and I should hedge against that uncertainty by providing the best variety possible. For instance:

1. My evidence of attending school together includes transcripts, dated (and implicitly dated) photos, and debit card records showing we purchased from the same stores on the same day several times. In a strict sense, however, I suppose nothing here really "proves" that we met except the photos.

2. For our return trip from a visit to my house I have an itinerary (printed from the travel website -- not too official-looking, unfortunately) and debit card records that match the itinerary extremely well: we made purchases at the same place in our starting city, then more purchases at the same place in our connecting city one day later. This is nice because it's probably our best debit-card based evidence.

3. For our trip to Latin America I have an itinerary (also printed from online, although better-looking) and passport stamps that match the itinerary and show us arriving on the same day in 2010. This evidence seems valuable because it's our only passport-based evidence. I also have dated photos.

Might this still be overdoing it? I don't know whether my "include many different kinds of evidence" intuition is reasonable or just paranoid.

[twowls 217]

Thanks -- this was my guess, but I wasn't sure.

My current plan is to drop all evidence of my trip to South Korea, which was weak anyway and was probably a distraction. I think I might keep evidence of two other trips, though -- my thought is that it's unclear which kinds of evidence the examiner particularly prizes, and I should hedge against that uncertainty by providing the best variety possible. For instance:

1. My evidence of attending school together includes transcripts, dated (and implicitly dated) photos, and debit card records showing we purchased from the same stores on the same day several times. In a strict sense, however, I suppose nothing here really "proves" that we met except the photos.

2. For our return trip from a visit to my house I have an itinerary (printed from the travel website -- not too official-looking, unfortunately) and debit card records that match the itinerary extremely well: we made purchases at the same place in our starting city, then more purchases at the same place in our connecting city one day later. This is nice because it's probably our best debit-card based evidence.

3. For our trip to Latin America I have an itinerary (also printed from online, although better-looking) and passport stamps that match the itinerary and show us arriving on the same day in 2010. This evidence seems valuable because it's our only passport-based evidence. I also have dated photos.

Might this still be overdoing it? I don't know whether my "include many different kinds of evidence" intuition is reasonable or just paranoid.

Consider the job of USCIS: simply checking off that you've met the basic requirements to go forward. You really are not in the business of proving all the times you've met and been together at this point. You need to show one clear example of having touched each other in the flesh in the past two years. Do that simply and clearly as possible, yeah? You won't hurt yourself by throwing other things in, but just for peace of mind, remember what the purpose of this initial petition is, and fulfill those requirements without argument or projection. Just supply the proof that's being asked for. You pass the threshold of proof of meeting; you're good. The next step will be different; this step just really wants to see your passport stamps etc. and send you your NOA2 and be rid of you. Be literal and concise with them; that's their language.