N400, have you ever voted?

[phillybogota 0]

Hello, my wife and i are looking for some help.

We are in the process of filling out her N-400 for citizenship and realized we may have performed a costly error. During the last Presidential election my wife and I went to vote. I have been registered for years and I have voted all of the time. My wife registered earlier that year but we were unsure if she could actually vote. As we arrived to vote she gave her name and i gave mine and we both were allowed to vote. After reading the N-400 and doing some research we realized she was not allowed to vote. We also realized that she could be in big trouble and there could be a possibility of her being deported. We are very worried now and do not know how to fill out the form. We would like to be honest but would hate to be separated due to our ignorance. Our questions are How serious does the USCIS takes this, and how should we fill out the form? Has anyone else been in this situation before? we would love to hear your story and any advice you may have. I am a honest law abiding citizen (except for that incident). Any help woould be appreciated, thanks

Edited July 7, 2010 by phillybogota

[Tom_Jim 40]

According to USCIS's M-618 pamphlet, "Welcome to the United States", page 18 states the following:

There are also serious consequences for your as a permanent resident if you:

[...]

Vote in a federal election or in a local election open only to U.S. citizens

As for what part of the Immigration and Nationality Act they are drawing this conclusion to, I'm not sure. One thing I *do know for certainty: do not lie on any immigration forms. For one, they will do extensive checks on you during naturalization and if they find out your wife voted and lied about not doing so, I would imagine the outcome wouldn't be good.

[v333k 59]

I really recommend you get an immigration lawyer. I am sure you are not the only people who have done this. It will be costly, but it may be your only choice.

[Lansbury 19]

This is beyond the scope of layman's advice on an internet forum. It is taken quite seriously by USCIS. Best to seek the advice of an immigration lawyer as a doing it yourself without expert advice could make the situation worse than it already is.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

That is material misrepresentation, the ultimate dealbreaker and indeed a sure-fire reason for deportation with a lifetime ban attached.

Here my thoughts to you: don't you ever apply for naturalization in this lifetime. Seriously.

[sachinky 465]

I still don't understand how people think that they can vote without being a citizen. Most, if not all, countries allow only citizens to vote. It is one of the rights, duties and responsibilities of a citizen, one that is not accorded to PRs.

Consult a lawyer. Do NOT lie on that form. I'm going to go with Bob on this one.

Edited July 7, 2010 by sachinky

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

The issue is not so much that you voted but that by voting in an election that is restricted to US Citizens you represented that you are a US Citizen. False claim to US Citizenship is a crime and makes an Alien inadmissible for life.

BTW, even to remove conditions you'll have to lie: Part 3, Item 7 "Have you ever been arrested, detained, charged, indicted, fined, or imprisoned for breaking or violating any law or ordinance (excluding traffic regulations), or committed any crime which you were not arrested in the United States or abroad?"

The correct answer would be "Yes", but admitting to it makes you deport-able and bans you from the US for life.

Nice little catch-22...

[NickD 203]

When my wife was a LPR, took her to the polls for just a city referendum that would greatly affect our property taxes, told the clerk, she is not a US citizen, but she would like to vote as this is money out of our pockets. Clerk said no, she is not allowed to vote even though she is paying taxes.

If I didn't tell the clerk she wasn't a US citizen and a the voting application was given to her, which it was when she was a US citizen, first question on that form was, Are you a U.S. citizen? Check Yes or No.

So how did your wife manage to register in your state, didn't anyone ask her that question? Some came to this board where somehow voters registration is coupled with obtaining a drivers' license, and the question was never brought up as to whether that person is a US citizen or not.

You are claiming ignorance on this subject, but what happened at that registration, was the issue of citizenship ever brought up? In the last several elections the subject of voter fraud was certainly an issue that stayed in the headlines. Could be you have voters fraud in your district, but its up to you to decide whether you want to take any action or not, can be costly. But if your wife did state she was a US citizen, you are dead meat.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Nick,

we can point fingers toward the O.P. all we want . . . it won't do any good as nobody can turn back the clock. You are correct, when applying for a driver license in California the form ask whether or not the applicant would want to register to vote. How easy is it to mark that field without paying too much attention. Then again, going to the polls and actually voting in a Presidential election takes it a big step further.

The problem is, laws and legal forms are written by burocrats and a lot of what they write is confusing and doesn't make sense. One doesn't even have to go as far as trying to figure out the tax code.

Bottom line, the O.P. is asking for advice given the circumstances at hand, and I'm sure they are in a pretty depressive mood already, which is not surprising. So what's needed now is not bashing, but advice on what to do from hereon.

[CaptainPenguin 5]

As many other posters have already remarked this is something rather serious and can result in hefty consequences. In this case it is not a matter of a small innocent mistake, checking the wrong box to register, but the OP actually went to vote. In many states including my own when you register to vote they ask in detail how you became a USC, by birth, naturalization etc. so they might even hold that against the OP. Many comments have been made regarding deportation, but I'm not sure if that is a possibility at this point. Many years ago I did know someone who was in a similar boat to OP, the INS banned them from applying for citizenship for 25 years and gave them a giant fine if the green card status wanted to be kept but they were allowed to stay. As most others, I highly recommend you contact an experienced immigration lawyer, do not, under any circumstances file the N400 on your own.

[NickD 203]

Nick,

we can point fingers toward the O.P. all we want . . . it won't do any good as nobody can turn back the clock. You are correct, when applying for a driver license in California the form ask whether or not the applicant would want to register to vote. How easy is it to mark that field without paying too much attention. Then again, going to the polls and actually voting in a Presidential election takes it a big step further.

The problem is, laws and legal forms are written by burocrats and a lot of what they write is confusing and doesn't make sense. One doesn't even have to go as far as trying to figure out the tax code.

Bottom line, the O.P. is asking for advice given the circumstances at hand, and I'm sure they are in a pretty depressive mood already, which is not surprising. So what's needed now is not bashing, but advice on what to do from hereon.

Certainly wasn't bashing, was asking the question, did the clerk ask or say anything about this person the status of their citizenship. If the clerk did and the person lied, yes they are dead meat. But if that wasn't brought up and was done in ignorance and lack of proper questioning by the clerk, they may stand a chance. Best advice would be to consult with a good immigration attorney and go into great detail.

Laughed when I was helping my wife with her civics test, what is the most important part of becoming a US citizen. The right to vote is the answer they wanted. Like our votes would make any difference, our state has such a small number of electoral votes and we are ignored by the two and only parties, with practically all elections won on concentrating on the key states. Then there is voting for what you feel will be the less of two evils. Last major election, our state finally moved up the primary date, until then, the candidates were already selected before we had a chance to vote, so why even bother voting?

[Dan J 277]

In certain jurisdictions, non-citizens are allowed to vote in local elections. If that was the case in your jurisdiction and she was given a special ballot for that purpose, then she would be fine.

[Boiler 45,520]

Forget the N 400, a whole world of hurt will open up.

[CaptainPenguin 5]

In certain jurisdictions, non-citizens are allowed to vote in local elections. If that was the case in your jurisdiction and she was given a special ballot for that purpose, then she would be fine.

That is kind of a catch 22, I in two out out of the three states that I have lived in non US Citizens are allowed to vote in local election. However, non US Citizens are not allowed to register in ANY of the 50 states ! So unfortunately that explanation will not work in the long run.

[NickD 203]

That is kind of a catch 22, I in two out out of the three states that I have lived in non US Citizens are allowed to vote in local election. However, non US Citizens are not allowed to register in ANY of the 50 states ! So unfortunately that explanation will not work in the long run.

Wouldn't have made any difference if my wife could vote for the last school referendum, 80% voted in favor of it. School claims not getting any money from the state, state claims not getting any money from the feds, it's all going to Iraq and Afghanistan. School threatened to close their doors at 2:50 PM where all the working parents depend on there babysitting service until 5:00 PM unless the referendum passed that increased our property taxes by another 400 bucks. We don't have kids in school, but that 400 bucks a year would be a lot cheaper than having your kids transferred to a day care center, so it passed with flying colors.

But that referendum didn't help parents that lost their jobs due to several major plant closings in town when the economy turned rotten. Was enviable anyway as many of our jobs were shipped to China, but they still are charging extra in property taxes. Ironically, China with our money is outbidding us for oil in Iraq, so we are not there to get free or cheap oil, and we still can't change their over 2,000 years of not getting along with each other to form a democratic government.

When you look at the hardships our government is causing us, and the way you vote doesn't make a difference anyway, seems ludicrous that one would get themselves in a lot of trouble by doing so. What this country needs is a second revolution. Kills me that our government is charging huge tariffs for our allies in Europe, but the countries that really gave us a lot of problems, like Japan, China, Korea, and even Viet Nam now, we are either paying them for their imports or charging nothing, and also paying for it with our jobs.