Jesus Christ May Not Have Actually Died On The Cross..

[Obama 2012 1,714]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/jesus-christ-died-cross-scholar/story?id=11066130

Jesus Christ May Not Have Died on Cross

No Evidence in Ancient Sources Backs Up Defining Symbol of Christianity, Scholar Says

For 2,000 years the crucifix has been a potent symbol of both Jesus Christ's death and Christianity. Now one Swedish theologian says that despite the crucifix's proliferation in art and literature, there is scant evidence in the Bible or other ancient sources to indicate that Christ was killed on a cross.

Gunnar Samuelsson, an evangelical preacher and theologian, says he spent three years combing thousands of ancient texts to research his recently completed 400-page doctoral thesis "Crucifixion in Antiquity."

What he discovered, he said, "came as a shock." While there were numerous references to "suspension devices" used for executions at the time of Christ's death, he could find no explicit references to the classic T-shaped cross.

"There is no distinct punishment called 'crucifixion,' no distinct punishment device called a 'crucifix' anywhere mentioned in any of the ancient texts including the Gospels," he told ABCNews.com.

Samuelsson devoutly believes the story of Jesus' death and resurrection, but says for generations people have misinterpreted and mistranslated the Greek word "stauros" to mean crucifix, when really the term just means a suspension device, which might have been anything such as a "pole or a tree trunk." The earliest versions of the New Testament were written in Greek.

"If you chose to just read the text and ignore the art and theology, there is quite a small amount of information about the crucifixion. Jesus, the Bible says, carried something called a stauros out to Calvary. Everyone thought it meant cross, but it does not only mean cross. We cannot say every instance of this noun, stauros refers to a cross," Samuelsson said.

Suspension devices, basically tall polls or pikes, were routinely used in the ancient world, by the Romans and their contemporaries, both as execution devices and for displaying the bodies of executed criminals and enemies as a public warning.

Part of what tipped Samuelson off to the apparent mistranslation, were routine references to things like fruits and dead animals being "crucified" in ancient texts, when translating the word as "suspended" makes more sense.

For Samuelsson, a 44-year-old pastor who is completing his research at the University of Gothenburg, his faith leads him to believe in the tradition that Jesus was suspended on a cross.

However, he says, "We don't know how those wicked people next to him on the right and on the left, were executed. Or what the devices looked like for people the day before or the day after."

"I am not saying no 'crucifixions' took place I the ancient world. But we cannot find evidence of them in the ancient texts," he added.

Given that the Romans were careful record keepers who wrote detailed and gruesome histories about their military conquests and lengthy legal treatises, it is strange that they would not have written plainly about their execution methods, he explained.

Samuelson says the idea of suspension devices would have been understood in the ancient world and by the contemporaries of Jesus.

"If you were walking around Galilee and heard Jesus say he will be suspended in days. People would have an understanding of the kind of torture involved."

While the Gospels mention Jesus' suspension, none specify a cross, according to Samuelson. Furthermore, the passion is described differently in different Gospels and has been depicted in various ways throughout history.

"In the movie the 'Passion of Christ,' Jesus carries the whole cross on his back. In some scholarly works, he just carries the cross beam. Nails are not mentioned before the passion and only mentioned in one book after he is executed," he said.

Samuelson said he never expected the international reaction his thesis has already received. He originally printed just 200 copies that he thought would be read by family and friends. He said he hoped scholars would be intrigued by his work, but has been surprised by the worldwide attention.

"I'm just another boring pastor. I think Jesus is the son of God. I read the New Testament every day. I'm filled with the Holy Spirit. I keep telling people, this does not mean we have to tear down the crosses in all the churches."

[웃 910]

Jesus Christ is almighty. I talk to him every day. He forgives me of my sins. I believe in Christ (pictured below) therefore I get to go spend time with him in heaven, worshiping him and kissing his feet.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Bullcrap. The Pope is infallible. Deal with it!

[웃 910]

I can't wait to get to heaven and worship this black God. He is my life. He is my everything. This black God gives me strength when I am weak, and mercy when I am distraught.

I will spend eternity with Him and kiss His feet forever!!!!! I will hug Him and kiss his beautiful toes for eternity.

[trillium13 84]

I can't wait to get to heaven and worship this black God. He is my life. He is my everything. This black God gives me strength when I am weak, and mercy when I am distraught.

I will spend eternity with Him and kiss His feet forever!!!!! I will hug Him and kiss his beautiful toes for eternity.

That sounds like crazy talk, but the actual crazy thing is there are plenty of people who feel exactly this way, just leaving out the "black" part.

[Heracles 417]

I can't wait to get to heaven and worship this black God. He is my life. He is my everything. This black God gives me strength when I am weak, and mercy when I am distraught.

I will spend eternity with Him and kiss His feet forever!!!!! I will hug Him and kiss his beautiful toes for eternity.

Why do you get a kick out of mocking other people's belief?

Edited July 3, 2010 by Booyah!

[Kar_98 10]

[Darnell 8,479]

I dunno - if he uncovered the translation error - think of that first translation into latin ?

Then the subsequent King James English Version ?

Never translated by a single human, always a team, with some 'board' giving governance on 'how to translate it', on 'sticky bits'.

IMO, never a 'single human' to blame for translation error, but usually a group.

Group implies what ? a scheme to perpetuate some fraud ? Collusion to cover up the error ? Or a purposeful error to further some 'needed concept' ??

Ya, you betcha, the Catholic Church doesn't want this to be 'exposed' - similar to the '#######' it's gone through about the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Of course, will this scholar be allowed into the Vatican Library, for any eyeball review of the original greek text ? Doubtful, even if he is a Catholic.

I dunno, if his 'works' can be vetted by some independent researchers, the Vatican will have some minor implosion..

Maybe..

or Maybe Not?

[luckytxn 2,265]

I can't wait to get to heaven and worship this black God. He is my life. He is my everything. This black God gives me strength when I am weak, and mercy when I am distraught.

I will spend eternity with Him and kiss His feet forever!!!!! I will hug Him and kiss his beautiful toes for eternity.

I hope to die at the same time so I can see the look on your face when he turns out to be white and you kneel to kiss his feet.

[HeatDeath 430]

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. The New Testament epistles even use the phrase "hung on a tree" several times to describe Jesus' death. The Gospels use the verb "crucify" with remarkably little context, and no graphic detail. The "crucifixion" may very well have involved a pole, rather than any kind of recognizable T or cross. While something called crucifixion was known to be a common Roman execution method, all visible representations of it postdate the end of the practice by at least decades, probably centuries. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to learn that Jesus' execution instrument didn't look like the thing on top of the church steeple.

My faith in the Atonement - the grace His death gained for us - does not depend on my estimate of the accuracy of medieval church art.

[luckytxn 2,265]

I guess that from the very beginning of his church they just decided to have a cross and decided out of thin air to have the cross represent his death. Oh I get it. A group got together and tried to come up with a way to represent his death. They thought and thought and tossed ideas out and debated and dropped some and kept some on the back burner until one said, "wait, I know, lets use a cross." They debated it and after much time came unto that this was the best way.

I had read a lot of that history back then and crucification was a pretty common way to dispatch people. Even the slave revolt recalled how thousands were done in this way. It stated how for miles along the road to Rome was the crosses that had hanging from them the slaves that had revolted. One of the worst punishments was to crucify one with little torture and just let them die of starvation lack of water. It was a horrid way to die. There were accounts of guards being bribed to allow family to come forward and comfort and feed and give water or wine to alleviate the suffering. Of course many times also they did use a tree to hand people if little time was available to make crosses. After one pretty famous battle many of the losing army were strung from trees or anything else to terrify the people and make them complacent. Many stories from around this and earlier of having criminals hung from the gate to the city to show anyone entering what would happen to them if they committed the crimes that those hung had done. They would also place a sign near so that anyone could read and see what they had done and for the ones that couldn't read a crier would say what the crime was his punishment. For many years there had been discussion of what the cross was like. How wide? How tall? Was it a true cross or a simpler style. Even the guy that made this book said that he was not sure but only speculating.