Oh those wild and wonderful Russian Women

[Satellite 1]

Are you basing this comment on the fact that through marriage she technically met the K-1 terms? My understanding is that while there is a legal posture, it predates the IMFA reform.

That was my understanding as well. I believe there was one case on point about a lady who met the technical terms of a K1 by getting married and then abandoning the original petitioner for another petitioner. Assuming all is done in good faith and in compliance of the bona fide marriage requirements. This will probably be a decision of an immigration judge since the lady should be placed in removal proceedings after the AOS denial. But it really depends which state she is in. Texas for example follows through, California just sends a letter.

[russ 1]

Are you basing this comment on the fact that through marriage she technically met the K-1 terms? My understanding is that while there is a legal posture, it predates the IMFA reform.

If the AOS is denied, the I=864 falls with it.

I did end up paying an immigration lawyer to look into her case for her. She does not have a lawyer, and I don't think she will be getting one.

The major points are: AOS depends not only on the marriage, but also on how you entered the country. For the AOS to be approved, the conditions of the K-1 must be met. These are marriage in 90 days, and marriage to the petitioner. The marriage must be deemed bona fide by INS.

A future AOS, supported by marriage to a different person, will still require her to demonstrate that the original AOS would have been approved.

The problem for her will be the the RFE, as INS did not believe the original marriage was bona fide.

She chose to have an affair the week of her INS interview, and was not able to obtain the evidence INS requested because of this.

The lawyer's opionion was that in this case it will be very difficult for her to adjust status based on marriage to someone else. To be successful, she will need to obtain the evidence that INS had requested about the first marriage. Since this evidence doesn't exist, things might not work. She can try, but it will likely take many years, and she will risk deportation/detention during this time.

Something similar happened to someone I know (married to a citizen, no green card). He spent about a year and a half in INS detention. Ultimately, he could stay, but the situation was very different (minor children were US citizens, etc..)

If she had been willing to participate in marriage counseling, she would have much stronger case.

Marrying me again would work (this will not happen though).

It is not possible to apply for any other type of visa, because of the immigrant intent from the K-1.

Claiming she is a battered spouse is an option, but probably won't work for her since she is the defendent in a domestic violence case. The violene was ultimately the reason for the divoce. (She was never hit or abused, but she also has no problem lying either).

So, kind of a long answer - the divorce isn't necessarily a problem. As long as there are statements from marriage counselors and family, and joint financial records, divorce is probably okay, even before the AOS is approved.

[Ivanovo 0]

Oh and one more thing: the unmitigated gall of the OP's wife to actually make her own choices! How dare she!

Oh and by the way, I went back deeper into the thread and maybe saw what you were getting all tithered about...

I have no problem with her making CHOICES of what to do, where to go, etc.

However to tell your husband a bare-faced lie several times, about where she had been, or to choose the fact that you'd rather go out to a cafe, with friends from work, instead of bothering to call home, when someone is waiting to cook you dinner, is waiting for you to come home at an expected time so they don't worry about you...

There's a HUGE difference there Lisa...

If your "husband" was expected home at say 06:00 PM and you were waiting to cook his dinner for him and he had made the "choice" to go out to the pub with his friends... didn't bother to call you, came home at 7:30PM, with ale on his breath, reeking of cigarette smoke, over an hour late... while you sat home worried about where the hell he was, or what could have happened to him...

Certainly that is HIS choice to make.

And supposing he had just learned to drive your car, didn't understand the laws against "drunk driving" in the country, meanwhile you were worried because they hadn't been driving very long, but no, he chooses to just tell you he was "fine" and you were just being a b*tch because it was HIS choice to make after all...

Now suppose he started spending all his money on himself and never helped you one iota with paying any of the household bills, or even contributing small items to the household.. again HIS choice to make, it's his money, after all, right??

Now suppose he agreed to marry you on the basis of telling you he wanted X, Y and Z... and once you got married, he told you that he had absolutely NO interest in X, Y, Zed or any other letter of the alphabet remotely resembling any of those... yeah, after all, it's HIS choice to make, but how does that make you feel about what he had told you ~before~ getting married?? And his motivations for telling you that??

Right, his choice to just change his mind. Ok, then.

Now suppose you tell him that he needs to carry the "insurance card" and driver's license at all times with him in your car when he is driving. And he asks why? And you explain it to him, this is the law, and this is expected to be complied with. And you are a new driver, and if something happens the first thing the police will ask you for are these documents. And he says "ok" and then makes the choice to leave them at home anyway. And you explain to him AGAIN this is the law, this is MY car, and but it is HIS obligation to keep these things with him at all times... and again he "chooses" to leave them at home....

Yeah, yeah, this is HIS choice to make, how dare the law tell him what documents he is supposed to carry, and it's your car, but you're the one who will have to go bail him out and pay his fine if he is caught without these, due to a traffic accident, or a more minor infraction of traffic laws...

Yup, just support his choices in whatever he does...

Suppose he chooses to use DISHWASHING liquid in the dishwasher. Do you just smile and say "your choice to make, honey?" or do you take the time and explain and SHOW someone how this works and what they are supposed to do... and then they tell you "you are always telling me what to do???" to thank you for your efforts??

Uh huh... it's their choice to -destroy- everything in your house because obviously you've only lived in your country for many many years, and they just got here, but it should be THEIR choice to do what they want, regardless of whatever damage it causes...

OK... your choice to bother to reply to this or not...

-- Dan

dan. this goes much deeper than dishwashing detergent. you seem mildly irritated that she asked questions of you after you explained some of the American ways. can you really blame her? this is her home now and she needs to know everything and it takes patience to explain it all. i don't see a problem with that. i met my wife while i was working in Ivanovo on a three year contract. in that time we lived together in Ivanovo and only filed to come here when my contract expired. even though my wife has been to the united states on many occasions prior to living here ( with her work) i still have to explain not only how things work but why things are that way also. it's not that i feel she is questioning my word on what i am explaining, but rather is wanting a better understanding for herself, and not blindly accepting information which could be dangerous. i am happy to explain to her futher, as i want her to be completely comfortable with everything.

you also seem irritated that she learned to drive and took to being in america " like a duck to water". that should be a good thing. this is her home now. you seem resentful in your post that she got a job. i would have thought you would have been rather happy about that. gets her out of the house, making friends and becoming accustomed to being in America, isn't that the idea?

although i understand much of what you are saying, there is some of it that reeks of expectations too high and 'dissappointed shopper'.

sry dude, i could be wrong but thats the way it reads.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Are you basing this comment on the fact that through marriage she technically met the K-1 terms? My understanding is that while there is a legal posture, it predates the IMFA reform.

That was my understanding as well. I believe there was one case on point about a lady who met the technical terms of a K1 by getting married and then abandoning the original petitioner for another petitioner. Assuming all is done in good faith and in compliance of the bona fide marriage requirements. This will probably be a decision of an immigration judge since the lady should be placed in removal proceedings after the AOS denial. But it really depends which state she is in. Texas for example follows through, California just sends a letter.

There is an attorney that participates on BE that claims that a lawyer representing an alien in such a situation could fsahion a defense after the Dixson & Dawson cases, that occured prior to IMFA, using the legal posture that the terms of the K-1 were met once the beneficiary used the K-1 visa to enter, and married the petitioner within the 90 days allotted. If I remember correctly, there has been little case history in recent years, but who knows, perhaps it might work. All the same, the alien would have to be prepared to face a rather intensive legal battle.

[Satellite 1]

It is not possible to apply for any other type of visa, because of the immigrant intent from the K-1.

Thanks for pretty much confirming what my previous had said about her options. It shows I actually know a thing or two.

However, I would disagree with this part. She might not be able to get B1/B2 visa, but she is definitely eligible for dual intent visa such as an H1B. If she has certain skills in need by her employer, the employer can go through the labor certificate process or if she has extraordinary abilities without one, and obtain AOS that way. However, it will be a long uphill battle in proving the first marriage was bonafide like that attorney said and I agree.

Her best bet is actually to see a legal aid society who might take on her case free of charge if she can convince them of what a "bad" spouse you were. They really like all those domestic violence / battered women cases even if we both know she is at fault. Her case will really depend on the creativity of her lawyer and the discretion of the judge.

[russ 1]

There is an attorney that participates on BE that claims that a lawyer representing an alien in such a situation could fsahion a defense after the Dixson & Dawson cases, that occured prior to IMFA, using the legal posture that the terms of the K-1 were met once the beneficiary used the K-1 visa to enter, and married the petitioner within the 90 days allotted. If I remember correctly, there has been little case history in recent years, but who knows, perhaps it might work. All the same, the alien would have to be prepared to face a rather intensive legal battle.

The biggest issue is that the original AOS would not have been approved (divorce or not).

She can try, but without lawyers it will be very difficult. I think that this too special a case to have any textbook answer. Dixson & Dawson may not really apply, as those cases are 30 years old. Immigration law has changed since then, and I don't know much recent case law. I do know that INS will reject any I-485 she files now, so any argument would be in front of a judge.

Stopping the divorce and attending marriage counseling would probably work, though I have been advised against this. (there was a reason for the divore)

The better (cheaper, faster) way would be to marry, leave the country, petition I-130. She should try not to overstay more than 90 days, otherwise a waiver at the foreign interview will be needed to avoid a 3-10 year ban.

For other reasons, it is in her best interest to be with her family now. (There are some other problems that are not appropriate to discus here).

The more likely outcome is that she will take the same route as some of her friends, staying here illegally until she is caught. As we all know, that can be quite a long time.

[Oregonfiancee 0]

It is not possible to apply for any other type of visa, because of the immigrant intent from the K-1.

She can apply for another K1 or CR1.

[Satellite 1]

staying here illegally until she is caught.

Not likely to happen unless she attempts to travel, proceed with her case, or get taken into the criminal justice system. Beauty of America, we don't have city cops randomly checking registration and passports every 5 minutes as they do in Moscow!

[russ 1]

don't have city cops randomly checking registration and passports every 5 minutes as they do in Moscow!

Depends where you are, but yeah, I would say that if you don't want to be found, you won't be.

She can apply for another K1 or CR1.

Can't be done from the US though. Which is why I said, it is best not to overstay more than 90 days if one is planning to do this.

[Oregonfiancee 0]

She can apply for another K1 or CR1.

Can't be done from the US though. Which is why I said, it is best not to overstay more than 90 days if one is planning to do this.

Yes, she can apply for another K1 or CR1 from Russia (if she decides to return). 90 days rule is not for her anymore because she met all requirements for the K1 with you. Even she was in US more than 90 days (because you got married, then applied for AOS), she did not overstay her visa. If she will now return to Russia and will apply for another K1 or CR1 - she can get these types of visas.

She will need a divorce certificate though.

[russ 1]

Yes, she can apply for another K1 or CR1 from Russia (if she decides to return). 90 days rule is not for her anymore because she met all requirements for the K1 with you. Even she was in US more than 90 days (because you got married, then applied for AOS), she did not overstay her visa. If she will now return to Russia and will apply for another K1 or CR1 - she can get these types of visas.

She will need a divorce certificate though.

Once her AOS is rejected, she will need to leave. If she overstays 90 days passed this time, it is my understanding that she would face a 3-10 year ban. (She would need a waiver in this case).

[diadromous mermaid 36]

Yes, she can apply for another K1 or CR1 from Russia (if she decides to return). 90 days rule is not for her anymore because she met all requirements for the K1 with you. Even she was in US more than 90 days (because you got married, then applied for AOS), she did not overstay her visa. If she will now return to Russia and will apply for another K1 or CR1 - she can get these types of visas.

She will need a divorce certificate though.

Once her AOS is rejected, she will need to leave. If she overstays 90 days passed this time, it is my understanding that she would face a 3-10 year ban. (She would need a waiver in this case).

180 days

[Satellite 1]

If she overstays 90 days passed this time, it is my understanding that she would face a 3-10 year ban. (She would need a waiver in this case).

As I understand it the 3 year ban kicks in after 180 days and 10 year ban after 360 days. And the way the law is written the bans only kick in if you leave the US and apply for the visa. As stated earlier out of status begins only upon AOS rejection in this case.

[Califman 0]

Hi guys,

I am a newbie here posting though I have gone through this website earlier. I got married to my Russian devushka 10 months back and since we had gone through a really good immigration attorney whom I trusted through our K-1 process, I never really used this site much.

We have had some recent big problems in our marriage, which is more or less over and some of them are too similar to the ones I am reading here on this site and especially in this forum, guess a lot of Russian women do act similarily. And after reading one of the poster's reply about the three types of women, I am starting to wonder if I got married to a no.2 or even no. 1 type of woman. Maybe she just wanted a good life and decided to take the chance with me....I really dont know, so much confusion right now....

But I did get further confused by some people mentioning here that there are ways for the foreign spouse to stay on even after getting divorced but before removing conditions on the green card. Our AOS was approved a couple of months ago and the green card arrived about 40 days ago. As of now we have decided to get divorced, well, she had an afair with this Russian - American dude (USC) and has now moved in with him, about a week ago. Would she be able to marry him after getting divorced and remain in the US ?

We didn't have too many bonaifdes with us for our marriage while we were applying for our AOS, since I am a B-school student and we were living on-campus. But we still managed to get our AOS approved becasue we had some bills (credit card and seperate cell phone bills) coming to the same address, our joint account and she had got her D/L and state id on this address.

I am just thinking that with just those bonafides to prove our marriage, and even if she able to prove her marriage to the other guy pretty well, isn''t it against the k-1 procedure that she can stay here because she came with my petition ???? At least, thats what I used to think.....

I will be apporaching a good imm. attorney soon (pretty busy right now at school) and if anyone knows of one in teh SF Bay area, please PM me or post here with the info.

[russ 1]

Hi guys,

I am just thinking that with just those bonafides to prove our marriage, and even if she able to prove her marriage to the other guy pretty well, isn''t it against the k-1 procedure that she can stay here because she came with my petition ???? At least, thats what I used to think.....

Fortunately for her, she is in much better shape. Since the AOS was okay, there shouldn't be much of a problem.

She can petition to remove conditions as soon as your divorce is complete. If you both had gone to marriage counseling, this helps her as well. I know that the cheating hurts, but there was nothing you could do about it. It hurts to know you have been lied to, or used. The sooner you move on with your own life an remember that it wasn't your fault, the better. Some people are not capable of being in a relationship without cheating -- so you can't be married to them.

In my wife's case, none of this is at all related to being Russian (or being in the US). To be perfectly honest, I don't think that she has ever cared about the green card (I was the one forcing her to do the paperwork. She gave up on it 3 months ago).

I sent a package to INS today with all of our joint financail statements, divorce papers and police reports. I could not find anyone (including her friends) willing to supply affidavits. ( She has pissed a lot of people off ). At this point, it is in the hands of INS. They may approve it, they may not. It is out of my hands, but I did give everything I could to help them with their decision.

Thanks for pretty much confirming what my previous had said about her options. It shows I actually know a thing or two.

As usual, Sat, your opinions are dead on.

As for other visas, H1-B isn't an option for her. She has never been able to hold a job longer than 6 weeks, no specialized knowledge. K-1, K-3, or CR-1 are basically it.

Her best bet is actually to see a legal aid society who might take on her case free of charge if she can convince them of what a "bad" spouse you were. They really like all those domestic violence / battered women cases even if we both know she is at fault. Her case will really depend on the creativity of her lawyer and the discretion of the judge.

They will want some kind of documentation though. The I-360 she would file would allow her to stay for 24 or 27 months, but would require at least some supporting documentation to be filed with it.

It will be even worse for her, since the court here will likley combine the divorce with the domestic violence charges. This will make it hard to hide things.

I know the local prosecutor here, so she might catch a break (it isn't up to me what they do, but hopefully he can look into things before she is due in court). As he pointed out - be careful. They like putting guys in jail, since it is easier to get convictions.