Oh those wild and wonderful Russian Women

[knowledge 0]

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Have a talk with your lawyer. But if he isn't an immigration lawyer, try to find one that is, pay for the consultation fee so you can get an idea of what options you two have.

In theory if she can appeal her denial or have her green card approved then she will be able to remove conditions as a self-petition based on divorce / bona fide marriage. But getting to this stage is going to be an uphill battle since she didn't get her conditional greencard back in July.

You can also garner more advice by posting in the AOS or removing conditions forms.

I've got a few immigration lawyers I'm talking to tomorrow (my family is pretty well connected lawyer-wise), though they are not particularly interrested in helping my wife.

I've already gathered that getting her original petition either approved or approved on appeal is the best outcome, but difficult now.

So a new marriage next year, and I-130 is more likely. The best thing I can do to help this will probably end up being nothing. Going back to Russia for a K-1 would be a bad choice, as she may have medical problems getting it approved. (I'm sure they would also have questions about the first marriage anyway).

Based upon her emotial state now, I'm not sure how likely that marriage will be. It would be much better if she could do this without depending on marriage.

I told her that I would continue to pay for her university tuition - how possible is it for her to apply for an F-1 (student) visa? Can this be done from inside the US, since she is still here legally for now? Without the greencard, she will be forced to quit school.

Wow! Russ, how nice of you to still help her! it's touching! you are a true gentleman!

[Satellite 1]

I told her that I would continue to pay for her university tuition - how possible is it for her to apply for an F-1 (student) visa? Can this be done from inside the US, since she is still here legally for now? Without the greencard, she will be forced to quit school.

As long as her status is still considered K1 non-immigrant she will not be able to change her status to an F1 through an I-539 as stated in the filing instructions.

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/i-539.pdf

So changing status in the country will probably be impossible. However, because she is under an authorized stay by the attorney general she might fall into some other category not mentioned in the I-539.

Also, how does Chicago do their tuition policy? Are you paying in state or out of state tuition? The downside of a student visa holder is that they are bound to pay out of state tuition which can be 5 to 10 times more expensive than in state and that might not be something you would want to pay for.

However, I don't think she'll have to quit school if she is out of status. At least in California we got thousands of people in our colleges, universities, and primary schools who are undocumented.

[russ 1]

So changing status in the country will probably be impossible. However, because she is under an authorized stay by the attorney general she might fall into some other category not mentioned in the I-539.

Also, how does Chicago do their tuition policy? Are you paying in state or out of state tuition? The downside of a student visa holder is that they are bound to pay out of state tuition which can be 5 to 10 times more expensive than in state and that might not be something you would want to pay for.

However, I don't think she'll have to quit school if she is out of status. At least in California we got thousands of people in our colleges, universities, and primary schools who are undocumented.

These are all excellent questions, which I will bring up with a lawyer tomorrow. Knowing how bad schools can be with paperwork (I faxed documents to them, marriage certificate was enough for them based on marriage to me), she may finish school without ever being asked for anything again.

She will be out of status then, but the odds of being caught are probably slim.

She does have a travel document (technically still valid), so she may be able to apply for an F-1 from Canada. (I know people who have done this under different circumstanes, H1-B to F1 and F-1 to L1)

It is still a risk leaving the US, though I think she would be okay if she travelled with me, marriage certificate, AP etc. Of course, it would need to be done quickly - ~40 days left on the clock). It might be a problem applying for such a visa if the know she already has an AOS pending. More questions for my lawyer...

[slim 1,525]

I find it simply amazing that you're going through the trouble of consulting attorneys and doing whatever you can to assist her with staying here in the U.S.

What's the motivation there?

Not trying to get too personal, I mean if it's just a simple, "well, I love(d) her and want to help her out if I can." or maybe even the "I feel like it's the right thing to do." Then, I understand. It just seems like a lot of (misdirected) effort on your part to do something positive for someone who did something so negative to you. (But maybe that's it right there.)

You're a young man Russ. If you spend the next couple of years trying to "help" this girl, you may miss out on the girl that's going to "help" you.

[Fandango 1,439]

I don't have much time, but I have to say one thing: many ppl on here talk about different nationality of women as if you were referring to a certain breed of dog.

Us (us as in WE not as USA) women are all different...it's a disservice to all women to be all 'these women are this way, those women are that way...'

Oh and one more thing: the unmitigated gall of the OP's wife to actually make her own choices! How dare she!

[PurrSuede 0]

I don't have much time, but I have to say one thing: many ppl on here talk about different nationality of women as if you were referring to a certain breed of dog.

Us (us as in WE not as USA) women are all different...it's a disservice to all women to be all 'these women are this way, those women are that way...'

I think you're fishing for things just to be argumentative... but there are CULTURAL and SOCIETAL differences between both men and women from ANY other culture than our own, and some of these cultural and societal differences can be discussed openly and rationally without being misogynist in nature.

Oh and one more thing: the unmitigated gall of the OP's wife to actually make her own choices! How dare she!

Excuse me, but I was the Original Poster who opened this thread... and I never said anything about "making her own choices", so your comment doesn't make one bit of sense to me in the context of this thread... except perhaps my ex-'s "choice" to abandon the marriage prior to the Removal of Conditions...

In fact, my original posting discussed the difference between cultures, the reactions by individuals (yes individual and UNIQUE women) within given cultures, and I even wrapped up the post by saying:

It's amazing the contrast in cultures...

So I fail to see the point of your diatribe, perhaps you could provide some cohesive arguements before slamming me (the OP)?

However I will say that most individual women from America have tended to react in ONE specific manner, and most individual women from a different culture (from Russia) have tended to react in a totally different, yet similar manner to each other, and wow, go figure, that I might be alert and aware enough of a woman's point of view to ~notice~ the difference in their reactions??

Ya think this might perhaps be CULTURAL??? Societal??

Or therefore I'm misogynist and defaming women because I care to discuss the noticeable differences??

uh huh...

-- Dan

[russ 1]

Oh and one more thing: the unmitigated gall of the OP's wife to actually make her own choices! How dare she!

To be fair, I have no problem with my wife making her own choices. Covering them up, or lying I do have a problem with.

[PurrSuede 0]

Oh and one more thing: the unmitigated gall of the OP's wife to actually make her own choices! How dare she!

Oh and by the way, I went back deeper into the thread and maybe saw what you were getting all tithered about...

I have no problem with her making CHOICES of what to do, where to go, etc.

However to tell your husband a bare-faced lie several times, about where she had been, or to choose the fact that you'd rather go out to a cafe, with friends from work, instead of bothering to call home, when someone is waiting to cook you dinner, is waiting for you to come home at an expected time so they don't worry about you...

There's a HUGE difference there Lisa...

If your "husband" was expected home at say 06:00 PM and you were waiting to cook his dinner for him and he had made the "choice" to go out to the pub with his friends... didn't bother to call you, came home at 7:30PM, with ale on his breath, reeking of cigarette smoke, over an hour late... while you sat home worried about where the hell he was, or what could have happened to him...

Certainly that is HIS choice to make.

And supposing he had just learned to drive your car, didn't understand the laws against "drunk driving" in the country, meanwhile you were worried because they hadn't been driving very long, but no, he chooses to just tell you he was "fine" and you were just being a b*tch because it was HIS choice to make after all...

Now suppose he started spending all his money on himself and never helped you one iota with paying any of the household bills, or even contributing small items to the household.. again HIS choice to make, it's his money, after all, right??

Now suppose he agreed to marry you on the basis of telling you he wanted X, Y and Z... and once you got married, he told you that he had absolutely NO interest in X, Y, Zed or any other letter of the alphabet remotely resembling any of those... yeah, after all, it's HIS choice to make, but how does that make you feel about what he had told you ~before~ getting married?? And his motivations for telling you that??

Right, his choice to just change his mind. Ok, then.

Now suppose you tell him that he needs to carry the "insurance card" and driver's license at all times with him in your car when he is driving. And he asks why? And you explain it to him, this is the law, and this is expected to be complied with. And you are a new driver, and if something happens the first thing the police will ask you for are these documents. And he says "ok" and then makes the choice to leave them at home anyway. And you explain to him AGAIN this is the law, this is MY car, and but it is HIS obligation to keep these things with him at all times... and again he "chooses" to leave them at home....

Yeah, yeah, this is HIS choice to make, how dare the law tell him what documents he is supposed to carry, and it's your car, but you're the one who will have to go bail him out and pay his fine if he is caught without these, due to a traffic accident, or a more minor infraction of traffic laws...

Yup, just support his choices in whatever he does...

Suppose he chooses to use DISHWASHING liquid in the dishwasher. Do you just smile and say "your choice to make, honey?" or do you take the time and explain and SHOW someone how this works and what they are supposed to do... and then they tell you "you are always telling me what to do???" to thank you for your efforts??

Uh huh... it's their choice to -destroy- everything in your house because obviously you've only lived in your country for many many years, and they just got here, but it should be THEIR choice to do what they want, regardless of whatever damage it causes...

OK... your choice to bother to reply to this or not...

-- Dan

[russ 1]

Suppose he chooses to use DISHWASHING liquid in the dishwasher. Do you just smile and say "your choice to make, honey?" or do you take the time and explain and SHOW someone how this works and what they are supposed to do... and then they tell you "you are always telling me what to do???" to thank you for your efforts??

Dan,

I think Lisa has a point, you are naming problems that almost every couple has (how to fold towels, don't use metal on the teflon pans, etc). The reaction is somewhat normal too. If all the little things were wrong, perhaps you weren't married to the right person for you in the first place.

To criticize choices this vocally, I think we are really talking about ones that will have a material impact on your life (starting/quiting a job, making a large purchase - car, house, etc). If you get bogged down in the little things, you are never going to be happy.

It was definitely the "big" choices that ended things for us - without going into details, it involved infidelity, violence, and honesty. I made my choice too, first to forgive, and then for the divorce. Our problems had nothing to do with Russia, culture, immigration, or how we met.

Dan is right too, there is a reason this is the "Russia" section. Gender roles and culture are in some cases very different in Russia. In most cases though, things are very similar.

[PurrSuede 0]

I think Lisa has a point, you are naming problems that almost every couple has (how to fold towels, don't use metal on the teflon pans, etc). The reaction is somewhat normal too. If all the little things were wrong, perhaps you weren't married to the right person for you in the first place.

Considering I'm divorced, I'd likely say she was probably NOT the right person...

To criticize choices this vocally, I think we are really talking about ones that will have a material impact on your life (starting/quiting a job, making a large purchase - car, house, etc). If you get bogged down in the little things, you are never going to be happy.

It was definitely the "big" choices that ended things for us - without going into details, it involved infidelity, violence, and honesty. I made my choice too, first to forgive, and then for the divorce. Our problems had nothing to do with Russia, culture, immigration, or how we met.

Dan is right too, there is a reason this is the "Russia" section. Gender roles and culture are in some cases very different in Russia. In most cases though, things are very similar.

I was giving examples of "choices". Anyone can make choices. The question is, do we CHOOSE to adjust to our partner, and to get along with them and to learn and to listen to each other or do we just go off independently, do whatever the hell we feel like doing without regard for what the other person is saying, thinking, feeling or wants from us...

A relationship takes TWO to tango, usually... you can also be in a relationship and CHOOSE not to participate as well....

One can choose to do whatever they want to do. If that choice always involves actions that continually look like they don't give a rat's @ss about the other person they are married to, then usually, eventually the other person makes a choice too, to say the h*ell with the marriage... and wonder why the h*ll that person "chose" to get married to begin with, anyway...

I also, frankly, have not even put down one tiny iota of the specific issues that came between us, but only cited some examples of where making a "choice" (despite what another person is asking of us, telling us, expecting of us) shows absolutely no consideration or concern for the person they ostensibly "care about".

To me that shows a "choice" of a chronic and continual disregard for the relationship itself if you can disrespect another person to such a magnitude...

You can extrapolate from there...

-- Dan

[Visa4habibi! 0]

Sorry Dan about what happened to you. I am a Russian woman living here in America. Now I am trying to get my new husband here from Morocco - not Russia. I read probably 2 pages of this thread and just wanted to say to you - you'll probably find another RW like your ex, if you'll look in Russia. People everywhere think that here in America we can find $$$ on the street or something. My husband doesn't really believe that I have to pay for all my visits to him with % and that I owe a lot of money for other things (like a car, house, student loan, etc.)

So, if you really like RW - look here in U.S. There's plenty and they know what it's really like here and you might find 'the one' for you. True, we are all americanized (dont' cook as much as before, don't do some stuff in the house, we did before). But we're still decent people - most of us anyway.

I bet I could find a couple of women like that at the place I work in Philly (but no guarantiees, OK)

Anyway, good luck to you whatever you do. Hope you'll find 'the one' this time and you'll grow old together.

Wish you a lot of happiness! Trust me, that bad phase of your life will end.

Tanya

[workin4somethin 0]

You're a young man Russ. If you spend the next couple of years trying to "help" this girl, you may miss out on the girl that's going to "help" you.

Ditto!

[PurrSuede 0]

Sorry Dan about what happened to you. I am a Russian woman living here in America. Now I am trying to get my new husband here from Morocco - not Russia. I read probably 2 pages of this thread and just wanted to say to you - you'll probably find another RW like your ex, if you'll look in Russia. People everywhere think that here in America we can find $$$ on the street or something. My husband doesn't really believe that I have to pay for all my visits to him with % and that I owe a lot of money for other things (like a car, house, student loan, etc.)

So, if you really like RW - look here in U.S. There's plenty and they know what it's really like here and you might find 'the one' for you. True, we are all americanized (dont' cook as much as before, don't do some stuff in the house, we did before). But we're still decent people - most of us anyway.

I bet I could find a couple of women like that at the place I work in Philly (but no guarantiees, OK)

Anyway, good luck to you whatever you do. Hope you'll find 'the one' this time and you'll grow old together.

Wish you a lot of happiness! Trust me, that bad phase of your life will end.

Tanya

Thank you for your wonderful thoughts, Tanya... and having been through the bad side of things, hopefully I can avoid those mistakes in the future... I don't think ~all~ Russians though just are looking for $$$ but I thought your insight was fascinating...

Of course, I'm the other side of the country from Philly, but hey, that's still closer than Moscow

Feel free to contact me offlist if you like... "FireLion"... Interesting indeed... are you a student of Astrology prrrrhaps, Ms. Lion??

Because my ex-wife was a Lioness... but even still.. not all Lionesses are alike either...

Actually when my ex- "americanized" it was a lot worse than what you're describing.. I happen to be a GREAT cook... and take good care of my house.. that certainly ~wasn't~ why I got married to her, I'll say that, indeed!

Thanks again for your good thoughts, Tanya!

-- Dan

[CarlE 0]

Russ,

You're a stronger man than I. If it were apparent to me that my wife had that kind of an exit strategy and we divorced, I could not provide the kind of assistance you are planning to give. Not only for the obvious reasons, but also I would be wary of putting some kind of hope into her head that if anything else goes wrong for her in the future, even if she's with another man, she could come to me for help. In the situations I've seen, it's sometimes been a shoulder to cry on, sometimes a quick "roll in the hay", and many times financial support.

I'm sure some folks have some ideas on whether or not someone who changes their mind one year into the marriage has the right to say "I deserve to keep this standard of living" and remain in the country. It's not so hard to understand...once most have been exposed to it, they look for a way to stay unless they've got some very compelling reason to go back home. Like maybe a very close family or other personal connection.

Perhaps it has more to do with how we individually define love. Some believe you fall in love with one person in your lifetime, and even if things don't work out with that person, you continue to love them and devote yourself to them forever. I know I personally have a threshold of pain that I can endure from a person that close to me, and past that any love I had can be burned away.

Not trying to judge or insult, Russ. Perhaps these comments I'm making are my own way of imagining myself in the situation and what I would do....therapeutic in a way. Then again, maybe I'm just spewing a bunch of bullsh*t.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

She chose to leave me for someone, then try to come back, but continue the affiar anyway.

Sorry for you loss Russ.

But just out of curiosity did she you leave you for another American or a Russian American living in your community?

In terms of immigration consequences she will be denied AOS if there is no response to the RFE. She might be able to squeeze in an I-360 for battered women in abusive relationship since there is some evidence of police involvement based on your other post.

However, she is better off abandoning this AOS application and pursuing a new I-130 if she marries her current lover. Because she met the technical terms of the K1 which was marriage to you and if it is determined that the marriage was bonafide she should be able to adjust status with her new petitioner if she goes that route. Unlawful presence is forgiven for marriage to a USC.

However, since you mention her returning to Russa, she will probably not be able to return after her AP documents expire or become void due to AOS denial. In a more distant future the lover in question can still petition for her through a K1 or K3 visa if they decide to go that route.

You might not be on the hook for the I-864 because AOS has not technically been granted. And even if you are there has been no case on VJ where the government has sued the sponsor because his beneficiary became a public charge.

However, I'd be more concerned about the outcome of your divorce proceeding, the last thing you want is for her to take her statutory share back to Russia or use it to start a new life in America.

Are you basing this comment on the fact that through marriage she technically met the K-1 terms? My understanding is that while there is a legal posture, it predates the IMFA reform.

If the AOS is denied, the I=864 falls with it.