Oh those wild and wonderful Russian Women

[slim 1,525]

Paul, you are right on all counts.

You do want the relationship to be based on trust, but some folks are way more trusting than others. Personally, it takes me a LONG time to trust people, especially women, and ESPECIALLY a woman that I might marry.

Has anyone on this thread truly been able to spend enough time with their lady to learn to trust her? I mean, based on all the posts that I've read we've got the week or two vacation together in Moscow or maybe Egypt, Turkey, the Dominican... something along those lines. There's been a couple of guys that've been able to actually "live" with their girls for a while because of either a student/work/tourist (fam. visit) visa, but for the majority of the folks on this site, there's only about a week or two of actual "face time." That makes it really, really, hard to judge someone. E-mails, IM, calling, etc., can make it easier to get to know the person, but the little stuff is what's extremely hard to decipher from strictly electronic contact.

When I say that you must "test" the person you're with, it doesn't stop there either. You HAVE TO go on and develop that trusting relationship where you can communicate your wants and desires and align those with your S/O's wants and desires. That's the only way it's going to work.

If you "test" them first though, you'll save yourself a lot of that "geting to know each other" stuff (which more often than not means fighting about everything because we don't really know the other person well enough to know what they want) only to find out that it's not going to work out in the end. A "test" is not a guarantee that you can still have a great relationship with a person. That's where your "getting to know each other" stuff comes in. However, if your "getting to know each other" comes before the outcome of the "test", then you're not going to be able to know that person for very much longer. (Because you'll have broken up by then!)

[MaClaud 1]

Hi Pursuade! It was very interesting to read all opinions and advise here. If you still read this theme you'll probably see what I'd like to say.

Take anything what have been said here as true or suitable for you but have your own head on your shoulders: trust or test, love or make friends... whatever you chose, trust to your intuition. No need to TEST someone tough if you have a chance to know her normally. And if you want to minimize your risk of finding hunters, follow advice of your russian friends who has nice friends among girls there in Russia, instead of surfing marriage web-sites(noone will give you any garantees there's no cheaters among registered users), AND THEN WHEN YOU'LL HAVE SOMEONE don't mention your INCOME if she doesn't ask, discuss more details about future life and family issues, kids, whatever you dream of... and you'll see the difference. And look through her questions... she has to have a lot about you and what you like, and who you are! And pay attention on some of (!) Slim's advice, especially about living in Russia. And leave your eyes open and mind clear! It's just great you didn't give up and don't hate the whole world of girls. Just remember problems with your ex and try to discuss ANY point which you can be surprised later... including paying bills. Cause sometimes it's normal for russian men and families when russian men pay ALL. Try to know more about her family and wy of her life and points of view on anything you can think of.

And Good luck!

Just IMHO of one russian girl, being in love.

Edited September 12, 2006 by MaClaud

[mrsushi66 0]

Well slim looks like you have the support of MaClaud (a Russian girl in love) so I can't doubt what you say and I see wisdom in what you say I think we just approach it in different ways.

Even if I dont agree with you all the time Slim I respect your opinion and advice. It is appreciated.

Paul

[slim 1,525]

And just to put it all in perspective.... I'm saying that you should "test" the girls on the websites, right up front. They're offering themselves up to anyone interested in talking to them, so that alone should be RED FLAG for any perspective guys looking for a loving wife. The flip side of that is that there are thousands of girls on there too looking for a loving husband, and they could care less about your money or getting a greencard. That's why if you run the "test" up front, you can sort through the gold-diggers quickly and get right to the girls who are looking for what you're looking for. (If that's what you're looking for!)

But, you have to admit, (and some more than others) that all of us "test" our S/Os in one way or another. Sure maybe we don't e-mail as another person just to see their response, but we do little things... "Do you think that guy on TV is attractive?"... "Have you ever cheated on a boyfriend/husband?" Lots of questions. Why not get straight to the point? That's where you're ultimately going to get anyway once you sort through all the BS and really get to know the person. All I'm saying is save some time and get there faster, that way if that person you're communicating with is not the right one for you, you can find the one that is.

[PurrSuede 0]

Hi Pursuade! It was very interesting to read all opinions and advise here. If you still read this theme you'll probably see what I'd like to say.

Take anything what have been said here as true or suitable for you but have your own head on your shoulders: trust or test, love or make friends... whatever you chose, trust to your intuition. No need to TEST someone tough if you have a chance to know her normally. And if you want to minimize your risk of finding hunters, follow advice of your russian friends who has nice friends among girls there in Russia, instead of surfing marriage web-sites(noone will give you any garantees there's no cheaters among registered users), AND THEN WHEN YOU'LL HAVE SOMEONE don't mention your INCOME if she doesn't ask, discuss more details about future life and family issues, kids, whatever you dream of... and you'll see the difference. And look through her questions... she has to have a lot about you and what you like, and who you are! And pay attention on some of (!) Slim's advice, especially about living in Russia. And leave your eyes open and mind clear! It's just great you didn't give up and don't hate the whole world of girls. Just remember problems with your ex and try to discuss ANY point which you can be surprised later... including paying bills. Cause sometimes it's normal for russian men and families when russian men pay ALL. Try to know more about her family and wy of her life and points of view on anything you can think of.

And Good luck!

Just IMHO of one russian girl, being in love.

Well I do appreciate your words and your advice... I have to admit, having been through Slim's Type #1 (the golddigger) and Slim's Type #2 (The GC seeker) that I think I can discern the one-sies and two-sies from the three-sies.

Actually the #2 type WAS introduced to me by an RW friend who was living here in America... however she also wound up divorced and in fact cheated/lied on her permanent AOS interview... so considering just WHOM she introduced to me... well, no surprise she turned out a #2, hmmmmmmm??

Actually having been through a two-year marriage to the #2, I can tell you a LOT about the American viewpoint of what to do and what not to do... we probably had every argument you can think of and then some...

I agree that I probably could have done more "groundwork" up front, but sometimes you just don't know how someone is going to be until you LIVE with them, and that's impossible unless you marry them (or move to Russia, which wasn't going to happen for me...)

And frankly there's one other part of this scenario... how she got Americanized so very quickly, got DAMN independent, got involved with a bunch of other RW's who were giving her all kinds of b.s. advice...

Including the "friend" who originally introduced us who also helped grease the wheels for her to slide right on out of the marriage entirely...

so much for "friendship" huh?

Anyway, this time I'm working on a definite #3 type (Slim can explain the three basic types in the "Book of RW according to Slim), and I was introduced by someone who does OWN a small agency but knows all of "her girls" personally...

So we will see... so you said: "discuss more details about future life and family issues, kids, whatever you dream of... "??? I had done this extensively before I married Nadya... I wouldn't have married her if she hadn't ~said~ she was interested in home, family, marriage, children... but once she got to America, she definitely "changed her mind" it seems... go figure...

As to your saying: "It's just great you didn't give up and don't hate the whole world of girls", well no, I can't say I hate the whole world of girls.. just because you make a mistake or two doesn't mean the world stops... you can find true love, sometimes you just have to search harder for it...

Besides.. as I always say:

"the soul would have no rainbow, if the eyes had no tears..."

But I'm damn tired of all these frickin' rainbows, and this time I'm lookin' for the pot of gold instead...

And I just maybe have found her... we'll see what happens...

Anyway, thanks for your kind and friendly words...

-- Dan

[russ 1]

Well, I guess you can include me in the divorced club too now. (Didn't even make it to the greencard, so I don't think that was the issue. But we were close. ) BTW, what do I tell INS about the RFE - it asks for info from me?

You need to be able to trust your spouse. If they lie about where they are or who they are with (for no good reason), the lies will just get bigger and bigger.

Remember what Ronald Reagan said about the Russians? ... "Trust, but verify." For me, verifying showed that the surface did not reflect reality.

I will have plenty of time to think about this, but I don't think my wife was ready to be married at all.

She chose to leave me for someone, then try to come back, but continue the affiar anyway.

Our friends really don't understand it (It is someone much older, poorer and uglier as they put it). It only took her a few days to decide to leave.

I don't think that there is any litmus test. You just need to observe people's behavior, and decide if you can accept it. It is complicated, since some people are good actors (at least, in the short term.)

[Satellite 1]

She chose to leave me for someone, then try to come back, but continue the affiar anyway.

Sorry for you loss Russ.

But just out of curiosity did she you leave you for another American or a Russian American living in your community?

In terms of immigration consequences she will be denied AOS if there is no response to the RFE. She might be able to squeeze in an I-360 for battered women in abusive relationship since there is some evidence of police involvement based on your other post.

However, she is better off abandoning this AOS application and pursuing a new I-130 if she marries her current lover. Because she met the technical terms of the K1 which was marriage to you and if it is determined that the marriage was bonafide she should be able to adjust status with her new petitioner if she goes that route. Unlawful presence is forgiven for marriage to a USC.

However, since you mention her returning to Russa, she will probably not be able to return after her AP documents expire or become void due to AOS denial. In a more distant future the lover in question can still petition for her through a K1 or K3 visa if they decide to go that route.

You might not be on the hook for the I-864 because AOS has not technically been granted. And even if you are there has been no case on VJ where the government has sued the sponsor because his beneficiary became a public charge.

However, I'd be more concerned about the outcome of your divorce proceeding, the last thing you want is for her to take her statutory share back to Russia or use it to start a new life in America.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Satellite

[russ 1]

She chose to leave me for someone, then try to come back, but continue the affiar anyway.

Sorry for you loss Russ.

But just out of curiosity did she you leave you for another American or a Russian American living in your community?

In terms of immigration consequences she will be denied AOS if there is no response to the RFE. She might be able to squeeze in an I-360 for battered women in abusive relationship since there is some evidence of police involvement based on your other post.

Well, the police reports and restraining orders are against her, so I doubt the battered woman route would work. Too many witnesses as well.

He is another American, though she only knew him for a few days. I'm not entirely sure what she is doing now (she might be trying to go off on her own).

She certainly does not want to return to Russia.

You are probably right that an I-130 is her best bet. The problem would be that INS did not believe the marriage was bona fide to begin with, hence the RFE for affidavits from my family and friends (which they obviously won't provide), and the RFE for joint financial records (there are none, and now won't be).

I have a feeling that the circumstances of the divorce may be a problem as well, though I'm not sure that INS would be looking at the divorce decree. The timing may raise flags as well (affair started the week before her interview).

The other complication is that she can't get married until her divorce is complete (may be some time, since she's avoiding being served with papers), and her boyfriend may not marry her in the end (for financial reasons, she will likely end up with a lot of debt after the divorce -- several years salary for him.) Neither of them have the resources to pay for lawyers.

Does she have any chance of appealing the denied AOS? I would be willing to help anyway I can, but it certainly would depend on her intentions and the divorce.

[slim 1,525]

I agree that I probably could have done more "groundwork" up front, but sometimes you just don't know how someone is going to be until you LIVE with them, and that's impossible unless you marry them (or move to Russia, which wasn't going to happen for me...)

Anyway, this time I'm working on a definite #3 type (Slim can explain the three basic types in the "Book of RW according to Slim), and I was introduced by someone who does OWN a small agency but knows all of "her girls" personally...

The "Book of RW according to Slim" will be available only after I actually LIVE with my #3 Type for a couple of years.

(Once upon a time I was lucky enough to share a flat with a #3 type (although not MY #3 type) and she showed me what the differences between the types were. Thanks Roommate for keeping it real with your husband, and subsequently epitomizing what a #3 type was!... while all of your #2 and #1 friends were out "shopping." Good luck to you guys, and say hello to your hubby for me!)

[mrsushi66 0]

But, you have to admit, (and some more than others) that all of us "test" our S/Os in one way or another. Sure maybe we don't e-mail as another person just to see their response, but we do little things... "Do you think that guy on TV is attractive?"... "Have you ever cheated on a boyfriend/husband?" Lots of questions. Why not get straight to the point? That's where you're ultimately going to get anyway once you sort through all the BS and really get to know the person. All I'm saying is save some time and get there faster, that way if that person you're communicating with is not the right one for you, you can find the one that is.

Ah but see this is where you and I differ. I don't see asking an upfront question as testing. In other words asking her if she has ever been unfaithful is not a test it is part of getting to know someone. So in my mind asking someone if they have ever been unfaithful is different then getting your best friend to try and sleep with her to see if she will be unfaithful. I am not saying you would do his I am just trying to help you undestand how I see testing. And I do ask all sorts of questions of my fiance but I can not see myself actually doing something to test her to see if she lied or not. Or even telling her hey I am going to come live in russia with you and we will get by, when I have no intention of ever living that far away from my family.

I have been toying with the idea of buying a country house in Russia close to her parent's country house. Of course that will be a family discussion in the future.

Again maybe I am and idealist and not experienced enough but who knows.

Paul

[Satellite 1]

Does she have any chance of appealing the denied AOS? I would be willing to help anyway I can, but it certainly would depend on her intentions and the divorce.

You can always appeal a denial of adjustment of status. The problem is finding a succesful basis for winning an appeal.

"How Can I Appeal?

If your application to adjust to permanent residence status is denied, you will receive a letter that will tell you why the application was denied. If you are not in a current, legal status, the process to remove you from the country will begin as soon as your application is denied. You will be allowed to have an immigration judge review the denial of your application during removal proceedings. During this review, Immigration must prove that the facts on your application were untruthful and that your application was properly denied. If the immigration judge decides to remove you from the country, you may appeal this decision. Generally, you may appeal within 33 days after the immigration judge decides to remove you from the country. After your appeal form and a required fee are processed, the appeal will be referred to the Board of Immigration Appeals in Washington, D.C. "

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/hdi245i.htm

Why do you want help? What is your goal? To get her a conditional greencard? To prove the marriage was bona fide? Or do you want to ensure the exact opposite?

[russ 1]

http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/hdi245i.htm

Why do you want help? What is your goal? To get her a conditional greencard? To prove the marriage was bona fide? Or do you want to ensure the exact opposite?

I would like to help her with the greencard. I can't do this by supplying affidavits about the state of the marriage (no one will do them for me). Likewise, nothing she can do about that either.

I have an injunction preventing her from talking to me for the next week. I can talk to her, but I don't know where she is.

I guess it looks like the best option is to help her appeal the aos denial. I'm willing to do anything short of lying under oath. After that (if it worked), she could immediately apply to remove the conditions, right?

I'm talking a lawyer tomorrow -- I'll see what he says.

[PurrSuede 0]

She chose to leave me for someone, then try to come back, but continue the affiar anyway.

Sorry for you loss Russ.

But just out of curiosity did she you leave you for another American or a Russian American living in your community?

In terms of immigration consequences she will be denied AOS if there is no response to the RFE. She might be able to squeeze in an I-360 for battered women in abusive relationship since there is some evidence of police involvement based on your other post.

Well, the police reports and restraining orders are against her, so I doubt the battered woman route would work. Too many witnesses as well.

He is another American, though she only knew him for a few days. I'm not entirely sure what she is doing now (she might be trying to go off on her own).

She certainly does not want to return to Russia.

You are probably right that an I-130 is her best bet. The problem would be that INS did not believe the marriage was bona fide to begin with, hence the RFE for affidavits from my family and friends (which they obviously won't provide), and the RFE for joint financial records (there are none, and now won't be).

I have a feeling that the circumstances of the divorce may be a problem as well, though I'm not sure that INS would be looking at the divorce decree. The timing may raise flags as well (affair started the week before her interview).

The other complication is that she can't get married until her divorce is complete (may be some time, since she's avoiding being served with papers), and her boyfriend may not marry her in the end (for financial reasons, she will likely end up with a lot of debt after the divorce -- several years salary for him.) Neither of them have the resources to pay for lawyers.

Does she have any chance of appealing the denied AOS? I would be willing to help anyway I can, but it certainly would depend on her intentions and the divorce.

This is another reason for a "divorce" forum and should probably be moved to the "Removing Conditions" forum...

There's a lot of things I'm seeing Russ, that echo the things I went though, but I'm not going to post the negatives into this thread which was originally about the positives...

I'll probably be posting in: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showforum=86

which is: Removing Conditions on Residency General Discussion

Or I might start a new thread here, not sure... but I could echo a lot of your sentiments, only mine wasn't about "cheating"...

-- Dan

[Satellite 1]

I guess it looks like the best option is to help her appeal the aos denial. I'm willing to do anything short of lying under oath. After that (if it worked), she could immediately apply to remove the conditions, right?

I'm talking a lawyer tomorrow -- I'll see what he says.

This is a tricky situation. The only way she can be approved is by having you submit more financial documents or your or others lie under oath in producing false affidavits of being a happily married couple.

Have a talk with your lawyer. But if he isn't an immigration lawyer, try to find one that is, pay for the consultation fee so you can get an idea of what options you two have.

In theory if she can appeal her denial or have her green card approved then she will be able to remove conditions as a self-petition based on divorce / bona fide marriage. But getting to this stage is going to be an uphill battle since she didn't get her conditional greencard back in July.

You can also garner more advice by posting in the AOS or removing conditions forms.

Edited September 14, 2006 by Satellite

[russ 1]

[

Have a talk with your lawyer. But if he isn't an immigration lawyer, try to find one that is, pay for the consultation fee so you can get an idea of what options you two have.

In theory if she can appeal her denial or have her green card approved then she will be able to remove conditions as a self-petition based on divorce / bona fide marriage. But getting to this stage is going to be an uphill battle since she didn't get her conditional greencard back in July.

You can also garner more advice by posting in the AOS or removing conditions forms.

I've got a few immigration lawyers I'm talking to tomorrow (my family is pretty well connected lawyer-wise), though they are not particularly interrested in helping my wife.

I've already gathered that getting her original petition either approved or approved on appeal is the best outcome, but difficult now.

So a new marriage next year, and I-130 is more likely. The best thing I can do to help this will probably end up being nothing. Going back to Russia for a K-1 would be a bad choice, as she may have medical problems getting it approved. (I'm sure they would also have questions about the first marriage anyway).

Based upon her emotial state now, I'm not sure how likely that marriage will be. It would be much better if she could do this without depending on marriage.

I told her that I would continue to pay for her university tuition - how possible is it for her to apply for an F-1 (student) visa? Can this be done from inside the US, since she is still here legally for now? Without the greencard, she will be forced to quit school.