Oh those wild and wonderful Russian Women

[timelena 0]

I love asking them the question "So how about I just move over there to be with you.... would you like that?"

That usually sifts through the BS for you, and makes it obvious pretty quickly what her intentions are.

I wish we were living in Russia and still have the same income as we have now.

No, I would not consider moving here, where I have none except for my husband, and the town is full of my in-laws!

Does it mean that I have good intentions?

I'd think some "bad" girls may be willing to live with an American guy in Russia. Sorry, but in most parts of Russia there is a perception that an average American is a millionaire. So, Slim's test might not work.

[slim 1,525]

I love asking them the question "So how about I just move over there to be with you.... would you like that?"

That usually sifts through the BS for you, and makes it obvious pretty quickly what her intentions are.

I wish we were living in Russia and still have the same income as we have now.

No, I would not consider moving here, where I have none except for my husband, and the town is full of my in-laws!

Does it mean that I have good intentions?

I'd think some "bad" girls may be willing to live with an American guy in Russia. Sorry, but in most parts of Russia there is a perception that an average American is a millionaire. So, Slim's test might not work.

Yes, in that case you have to go a little deeper and let her know that "we could live off my salary working at the local factory or driving a cab or whatever the other men in your city do." Normally, there's an "umph!" sound heard and if she's in your presence, you can see her wince and turn her head away, or (my personal favorite) point her nose straight up to the sky!

This is a fool-proof test. Granted, there are going to be girls who are very "professional" at acting like they love you and using you for the green card and all that, but most girls have a hard time hiding their true feelings when you tell them "I love you so much, I'm going to take the last bit of my savings to move to your city so we can be together. Don't worry, I'll find a job. I can work in a restaraunt or drive a taxi or even do construction or something. Don't worry baby. We'll make ends meet. Just as long as we can be together. I'll do that for you! I'll give up all my money and everything just so we can be together. Poor, but together, and so in love!!!" Sounds terribly romantic, no? Or does it just sound terrible? She'll let you know!

[PurrSuede 0]

Yes, in that case you have to go a little deeper and let her know that "we could live off my salary working at the local factory or driving a cab or whatever the other men in your city do." Normally, there's an "umph!" sound heard and if she's in your presence, you can see her wince and turn her head away, or (my personal favorite) point her nose straight up to the sky!

This is a fool-proof test. Granted, there are going to be girls who are very "professional" at acting like they love you and using you for the green card and all that, but most girls have a hard time hiding their true feelings when you tell them "I love you so much, I'm going to take the last bit of my savings to move to your city so we can be together. Don't worry, I'll find a job. I can work in a restaraunt or drive a taxi or even do construction or something. Don't worry baby. We'll make ends meet. Just as long as we can be together. I'll do that for you! I'll give up all my money and everything just so we can be together. Poor, but together, and so in love!!!" Sounds terribly romantic, no? Or does it just sound terrible? She'll let you know!

You know, frankly, even considering what I went through, it's just a little bit hard for me to ponder setting someone up that ostensibly I care for to put them through a "fool-proof" test. I mean it's the TESTING, thing. I almost think it's better to find an agency or representative you can trust and ask them what their "read" on the person is.

I don't know, Slim, I just have a hard time with the concept of 'testing' someone I care for.

Color me "sucker" maybe, but I've read of guys who write to their girls under a fake email name just to see what the woman would do. In some cases this backfires on them completely, and you can burn off a really decent relationship by showing a lack of trust in someone.

Don't you think there are other ways that you can "scope" something out about a person? I mean granted, once bitten, twice shy and I wanna make my current theme song "We Won't Get Fooled Again!"...

The thing is, was I "fooled" to begin with, or did sh*t just happen, the marriage went downhill (for some reasons I won't go into here) and she just tried to exercise her best options. Which is what most Russian women do to begin with, or women of ANY nationality for that matter...

Just some thoughts, my head is all swimming with them, what can I say?

-- Dan

[slim 1,525]

It's perfectly logical to assume that she really was in love and for whatever reason it just didn't work out, and at that time she took her green card and split.

However, it's more likely that she was planning from the very start to "find someone, preferably someone decent looking, nice, RICH, good to me" to marry and get the free ride to the States, then try to work it out along the way. Even if her intentions were to find a good husband and start a family together, if all of that is based on the "having a better life in the U.S." first, then the love and marriage aspect of it is only the equivalent of "taking a shot."

If you're just "taking a shot" on something as serious as "love and marriage," not to mention shelling out something in the neighborhood of over $5,000 (and more likely a helluva lot more) then by all means, TRUST that the girl you met through an agency or broker is truly the one for you. However, I personally would rather trust my gut, and run her through a "test" to see what she's all about.

The morality of testing a perspective mate can be debated. But let me guess, she paid her own way here, paid all the bills and took care of you? No. You took care of her, then had to pay her on the way out. Maybe if you would've "tested" her from the start, you would've been still holding that money in your pocket, or better yet, still had your wife at home.

I don't mean to be harsh, but the reality is a large number of these girls on the international marriage sites are looking for nothing more than a "free ride" to what they perceive is a "better life." And the worst part? It's the nice, beautiful, warm, romantic, PERFECT, girls that run the best games on guys.

So, sometimes a little "test" can balance the odds a little.

If you had an American girlfriend and went to a party together, did you ever leave the room and come back to find her talking to another guy? Did you walk right over and join the conversation, or did you sit back for a minute to see "how" she was talking to him? Did she play with her hair? Did she smile a lot? Did she make and hold direct eye contact? Was her body facing his? Was she relaxed and "opened up" to him? Did she touch his arm or shoulder when making a point? DID SHE SEEM LIKE SHE LIKED HIM???? And then, what did she do when she looked over and "caught" you watching her with this guy? This is a "test" that I'm sure almost everyone on here has done. Maybe you didn't realize you were doing it and it happened very briefly, but no matter what, it is necessary for us to know that there is some kind of trust in our relationships and that our perspective mates or spouses have good intentions and actually have true feelings toward us.

That's why I "test" every girl that I've ever been with.

[bruc 0]

This has been a good thread Dan and experiences such as yours is greatly appreciated by a lot of guys and girls out here. Sometimes the bad can help make for a better future and more success.

I do agree with Slim on doing some testing, and testing can also come from the other side as well.

International marriages between two different cultures can be confusing for both parties involved and needs a lot of dialog between the two before the wedding bells should ring.

I more or less took the advice of a personal friend that has just gotten his wife and step-daughter here from Russia. They had a year of correspondence before he was invited over for a meeting.

The did get engaged on his first trip 10 days after more dialog between them.

My fiance and myself have had a long relationship also, several trips to visit her and her teenage daughter, lot's of dialog between us...we became friends, had lot's of talks about culture differences, language differences, and what we wanted and expected as a family together.

My fiance is the friend of the wife of my best friend and I was introduced to her by both of them. She was and is the lady that I was told by both of them.

My fiance was not interested in learning to drive the car, getting a job, or how Americanized they would get.

She was interest in , how will you treat us and will you love my daughter , take care of us and see that my daughter grows up with high morals and gets an excellent education. We're going to love and be good to you and we will not go to America with you unless we have the same from you.

The one question that always got me to laughing was, now tell me about my kitchen , and will I have a yard to grow flowers and veggies in.

I feel good and confident about our relationship and I doubt she'll let a Russian friend influence her. She has an independent side to her, sometimes stubborn and hard headed, but we all have those traits and I respect her for hers.

I think Slim is correct in the testing in some areas, I tested her and she tested me and I suppose we both passed each others testing..so, I'll be filing the I-129F within the next 30 days .

Dan, there's a lady out there for you so don't give up .

bruc

[slim 1,525]

Just a quick note on the "testing" thing...

There are three types of girls on these internet sites:

1. The girl that wants to hit the "jackpot"

- Rich older man, nice house, car, might not have to work (or work a BS job) and will get to go shopping whenever she wants.

2. The girl that wants a better life, but also wants a good man

- Will "take a shot" with a decent looking guy that treats her nice enough... as long as she gets to go to America to take the shot

3. The girl that really wants to find "true love"

- Will even let you move in to her mom's house so the two of you can be together.

These girls normally run in groups. However, a number 1 can really sway a number 2 that's "on the fence" and a number 3 can become a number 2 if persuaded by a nice enough guy. But, a number 1 cannot influence a number 3, and the number 3s actually HATE the number 1s. If you can discover this about your perspective girl, you just hit the "jackpot."

bruc makes a great point too. If your girl is asking about how she's going to be loved and treated (and the size of her kitchen) then she's most likely a number 3. GO FOR THAT ONE!!!!

[PurrSuede 0]

However, it's more likely that she was planning from the very start to "find someone, preferably someone decent looking, nice, RICH, good to me" to marry and get the free ride to the States, then try to work it out along the way. Even if her intentions were to find a good husband and start a family together, if all of that is based on the "having a better life in the U.S." first, then the love and marriage aspect of it is only the equivalent of "taking a shot."

Bingo, Slim, I think you nailed it...

The morality of testing a perspective mate can be debated. But let me guess, she paid her own way here, paid all the bills and took care of you? No. You took care of her, then had to pay her on the way out. Maybe if you would've "tested" her from the start, you would've been still holding that money in your pocket, or better yet, still had your wife at home.

I think you just gone and done nailed it again...

This has been a good thread Dan and experiences such as yours is greatly appreciated by a lot of guys and girls out here. Sometimes the bad can help make for a better future and more success.

<snip>

Dan, there's a lady out there for you so don't give up .

bruc

Bruc, thanks for your thoughtful reply as well. There's a lot of good stuff there, and

that's what sharing our thoughts and ideas in this forum is all about.

And no, I haven't given up, and I'm trying to take the bad experience as only a positive

springboard for the future.

And as a good Russian (woman) friend told me, you can't move forward when you're

still looking backwards... so my focus is on tomorrow not on yesterday.. though it's

important ~not~ to repeat the mistakes of the past...

Thanks again for sharing, Bruc!

-- Dan

There are three types of girls on these internet sites:

1. The girl that wants to hit the "jackpot"

2. The girl that wants a better life, but also wants a good man

3. The girl that really wants to find "true love"

Yup, ya gone and done nailed it right on again, Slim.

And I have to say my first fiancee was a #1 and so I ended things. And after my experience with my #1, I can see that it was all too easy to think that when I found a #2, I'd hit ~my~ jackpot... but yes, now I can certainly see the difference, though it's easy to see such things in 20/20 hindsight...

These girls normally run in groups. However, a number 1 can really sway a number 2 that's "on the fence" and a number 3 can become a number 2 if persuaded by a nice enough guy. But, a number 1 cannot influence a number 3, and the number 3s actually HATE the number 1s. If you can discover this about your perspective girl, you just hit the "jackpot."

bruc makes a great point too. If your girl is asking about how she's going to be loved and treated (and the size of her kitchen) then she's most likely a number 3. GO FOR THAT ONE!!!!

Thanks again for your thoughts, Slim.. definitely good ones to keep in mind!

-- Dan

[Barry2005 0]

I can't think of any "test" that is fool proof.

I know my girl loves me but who really knows what anyone is really capable of. If she wasn't such a romantic cry baby when she is with me then I would be worried.

It would be interesting to hear how people have been fooled and how far people will go for a visa. Think a girl would have children knowing she wants a divorce after she gets her green card?

[slim 1,525]

It would be interesting to hear how people have been fooled and how far people will go for a visa. Think a girl would have children knowing she wants a divorce after she gets her green card?

She will try to avoid having children but... the bigger the payoff, the more "work" that must be put in.

I've personally seen a girl that married a guy and told him before he even brought her to the U.S. that she was going to divorce him right away. Sucker did it anyway. Then, I saw another guy that was smart about it, he married the girl, but kept his government job overseas so she couldn't enter the U.S. without him. She's had a couple of kids, but can't leave him because they're not in the U.S., and until they actually live here, she won't be able to get the greencard. (I believe she has something of a "greencard" for the country they reside in now. South Korea, by the way.) Their marriage is crazy. She's out at all hours of the night while he's at home with the children. He doesn't care because he has a gorgeous (and 20 years his junior) wife, she doesn't care because she gets to spend his money and still do what she wants to do. And then you've got the girls that have no trouble at all leaving their children behind just to get the greencard. (You've really got to watch out for those!)

So, to answer your question.... yeah, a gold-digging girl will go all the way if that's what she wants. As far as a "test" that will determine what your girl's true intentions are, there really isn't a fool-proof way to do it, but you can really narrow it down by asking the right questions, and taking note of her responses and actions.

(Once again, even THIS isn't fool-proof. You just never know. But hey, why not take a shot? It's like playing Black Jack at the Casino. The odds are on the house, but by following a few simple rules, you can ALMOST tip them back in your favor. ALWAYS double down on 11 when the dealer is showing a 6.... it's kind of like that. You may not get a 10, and the dealer may flip a 5 and draw a 10, but odds are you're going to get a high card and the dealer is going to bust. Same odds on Russian Women!)

[Barry2005 0]

Slim, with the divorce rate so high in the USA I know I have to be careful. I think one of the most important things is to have friends that are in sucessful marriages and have high morals. Surround yourself with positive people.

[travlnmannn 0]

I know that I'm kind of falling into this thread a little late but it made me think alot. I've read all the responses here and stopped to think about what my fiance has said to me and what I've asked her. And I can say the one thing that made me realize that she loves me was that she asked me if I would move to Russia if she couldn't get a visa. That right there says it all. She's also told me that she doesn't care where I live only that she wants to be with me. We talk 3 or 4 times a day on the phone which I hope means something as well. Good Luck to all of us !!!!!!

[slim 1,525]

I know that I'm kind of falling into this thread a little late but it made me think alot. I've read all the responses here and stopped to think about what my fiance has said to me and what I've asked her. And I can say the one thing that made me realize that she loves me was that she asked me if I would move to Russia if she couldn't get a visa. That right there says it all. She's also told me that she doesn't care where I live only that she wants to be with me. We talk 3 or 4 times a day on the phone which I hope means something as well. Good Luck to all of us !!!!!!

BINGO!

That is the key question. If your girl is willing to have you move there, that's an excellent sign that she's not just after the greencard.

Barry2005 and everyone else, sure it's important to have positive people around you, and if all of her friends are in good, loving marriages, sure, she's going to want one as well. But, I don't believe it's so much what you present to her as what she wants from the start. You have to make sure that both of your desires are aligned. Sometimes that's kind of hard to determine because more than a few young women are willing to marry guys for reasons other than love and happiness. (Reasons such as greencards and money.) So it's important to recognize what she's really in it for. Personally, I think the best way to do that is "the test" and to take as much time with the process as possible. I have the luxury of being young and having time to wait it out. So for those of you that are in your 40s and 50s, who don't have the time to wait, all the more reason to "test" your girl!

[travlnmannn 0]

Hey Slim,

Just checking out your myspace website. Pretty cool. You remind me of when I was 27 (37 now). Actually now I'm just partying once a week instead of every night You and the little lady ever come up to Chicago for some partying send me a PM. My little lady will be here in NOV. Most people that party with me never forget me as well

[slim 1,525]

Travlnmannn, I will be in Chicago some time. Don't know exactly when, but one of my best buddies is from the South Side. He just bought one of those new condos with a rooftop view of Comiskey (I mean, um, US Cellular field) so we're gonna have a BBQ or two up there soon. I will PM you when I head up. Hopefully we'll both have ladies along too!

[mrsushi66 0]

Personally I have a couple of problems with the test thing. First to test someone implies you dont trust them to begin with or you dont trust yourself to have spent enough time with this person to truly know them.

Second, people change over time and the evolve or in some cases de-evolve (dunno if that is a word). A person could come here with every intention of being with you but over time their wants and needs change and are not longer compatible with yours.

Anna has said to me many times that life in Russia is easier when you are married to a clever man. When I found out what she meant by this I had to fess up I was not clever in that way. What she meant was someone who could fix a car, do house repairs, etc. I have never been handy that way and when I told her that she said that is ok we are not going to live in Russia and she told me she would love me anyway.

Now I will fully admit that maybe the test thing is good for some people but it rubs me the wrong way and if Anna bolts after 2 years you can say I told you so. I refuse to build a relationship on testing and trust that Anna and I have put alot of thought and effort into making sure we know what we and expect from the other person.

Building relationships on trust is a lot of work, far more work than people realize and guess what, it takes a life time but the day I doubt my trust in Anna is the day I will have lost something very special. Call me niave, call me an idealist, call me what you will but my way is right for me at least.

Paul misses Anna