Oh those wild and wonderful Russian Women

[PurrSuede 0]

Hey folks:

For those who remember me, I became engaged to an RW from Yoshkar-Ola, Mari-El Republic in June of 2003, she came here on a K-1 in May 2004, married her in June of 2004.

We were divorced last month, July 2006... aside from the obvious remarks of some American friends about "how all she wanted was a Visa"... no one can know what was truly in her head, except it's pretty obvious she had "escape plan" in pocket, which is normal considering life in Russia and starting up in a new country. Though it's very peculiar this was right at the 2-yr point, you know those famous Russian "two-year plans"?? LOL

Now one thing I'm finding amazing... of course American women are like "you've got a lot of baggage, you're just out of a divorce, look me up in 6 months to a year..."

And of course the Russian women I'm meeting and talking with are like: "you are man with SERIOUS intentions, you had Russian wife, this is sad that it didn't work out, but you are AVAILABLE... when are you coming back??"

Some of my Russian friends are like already telling me "what you need is GOOD woman..."

Some of my American friends who have RW are telling me: "you know I told Marina/Irina/Sveta about your troubles and she said she has wonderful g/f back in Russia who'd love to get to know you..."

Ya just gotta love these RW's... they are really convincing me that somehow I got a bad one and THIS time, just maybe I can find a good one... they don't look at me as used-goods, carrying a lot of baggage, they view me as someone who sincerely TRIED and made sincere effort and it didn't work out.

To them, my stock went up. I was quite surprised by their reaction to this, for the most part...

It's amazing the contrast in cultures...

-- Dan, wondering when my next trip back to Russia will be....

[slim 1,525]

Sorry to hear about the divorce, Dan.

But, sounds like you've already figured out when the horse throws you, you get right back on! Good for you!

I find it amazing the contrast in the mindset between RW and AW. It's a night and day difference. You're right about everything in your post. I've got a buddy that just sent me a text message that simply said "what was I thinking messing with these American girls again?" He spent several years overseas and definitely understands what you're talking about.

Good luck in the future, and keep us posted on what's going on. Don't be a stranger to the forum, you've got some valuable insight for those of us that haven't taken the plunge yet.

[John and Anna 0]

Sorry to hear about the divorce, Dan.

But, sounds like you've already figured out when the horse throws you, you get right back on! Good for you!

I find it amazing the contrast in the mindset between RW and AW. It's a night and day difference. You're right about everything in your post. I've got a buddy that just sent me a text message that simply said "what was I thinking messing with these American girls again?" He spent several years overseas and definitely understands what you're talking about.

Good luck in the future, and keep us posted on what's going on. Don't be a stranger to the forum, you've got some valuable insight for those of us that haven't taken the plunge yet.

Dan

Thanks for the feed back!!

But maybe you can go a bit into detail on what happened??

[PurrSuede 0]

Dan

Thanks for the feed back!!

But maybe you can go a bit into detail on what happened??

Well I started this thread, in the Removing Conditions forum:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=23285

if you're interested I can go into the whole story, in a thread... it takes some time to unravel...

I'm pretty angry about things (not BITTER, there's a difference) but life goes on...

And I'm seriously looking back in Russia again...

I guess that Russian horse hasn't kicked me enough yet... LOL

-- Dan

[Laveau 67]

Well, I think t's wonderful that you haven't given up on love or you haven't become bitter. I, too, being the nosey VJ member would like to know what exactly happened. But also (and this goes to all guys with Russian SO's...I know you have talked about this with your ladies) I would like to know: what are Russian men like? I read about Russian women a lot on here, especially when being compared to American women. What are the men like or what have the women said about the men, in general? Just curious. Silly, I know. If you think what you have to say will offend (I have a feeling it will if you generalize about one group of people) then PM me plz.

Sylvia

Edited to add: I just asked my fiance the question about Russian men...about what's he know about them , IN GENERAL. What he said was not nice. LOL

Edited August 12, 2006 by stlinares

[PurrSuede 0]

Well, I think t's wonderful that you haven't given up on love or you haven't become bitter. I, too, being the nosey VJ member would like to know what exactly happened. But also (and this goes to all guys with Russian SO's...I know you have talked about this with your ladies) I would like to know: what are Russian men like? I read about Russian women a lot on here, especially when being compared to American women. What are the men like or what have the women said about the men, in general? Just curious. Silly, I know. If you think what you have to say will offend (I have a feeling it will if you generalize about one group of people) then PM me plz.

Sylvia

Edited to add: I just asked my fiance the question about Russian men...about what's he know about them , IN GENERAL. What he said was not nice. LOL

Sylvia:

I really can't speak to what Russian men are like. I never was married to one, nor even dated one.

Sometimes it's even simple demographics. As I understand things, there's more women then men to begin with. Many of the men aren't interested in being married. The ones who are, are usually taken off the market quickly.

The fact is, I'm of eastern European descent and raised in a Polish household in Chicago (large ethnic population). I think in many ways I'm just COMFORTABLE in the eastern european culture. In fact, I was told once that "until you opened your mouth and spoke English, we thought you were Yuri's cousin from Lithuania or something..."

That being said, the Russian women tell me that many Russian men are just not interested in marriage, family, having children, or especially raising another woman's children. I have no doubt if there were enough interested, available, eligible men for these women, the women would likely prefer to stay in their own country and not emigrate. I do know there's a high alcoholism rate, a much earlier age/death rate for the male population and most men do not pay any kind of child support for their ex-'s children.

On the other hand, there was a Russian woman, married to a friend of mine, who was VERY surprised to learn that under the divorce laws here in the US I am ~NOT~ obligated to support my ex- with any kind of monthly payments. (Note: divorce laws vary from state to state.) She had assumed I'd be writing my ex- a check ad infinitum. (Which is a very very long time...) Au contraire.

I did arrange a LUMP-sum payment that we used as "alimony/support". For one thing, this is a huge tax savings for me on this money instead of calling it "community property". It still doesn't make me happy to give her this, I feel like I'm paying her off for two years of marriage, after being the one who brought her here to begin with. But then divorce doesn't usually make life-long friends of the two parties involved, now does it?? LOL

Anyway, I digress. I think you'd do better asking one of the guys still hooked/connected to an RW and see what they say about it...

-- Dan

[PurrSuede 0]

Dan

Thanks for the feed back!!

But maybe you can go a bit into detail on what happened??

Without going into a lot of detail all at once, let's just say she became very much "American-ized".

Once she had a driver's license and a car to drive (~my~ 2nd car) she just decided she could go where she wanted, when she pleased. Simple questions about where she had been turned into long discussions, even lied to my face more than once about some things.

And then she got a minimum wage job in a beauty salon, and had disposable income to spend as she pleased. A small fortune in Russia perhaps, not really much here, but almost NONE of it came back to the house until I started insisting she pay for gas and insurance on the car she was driving. I finally asked her to give me $50 every two weeks from her pay check to help pay for bills... even getting this was like pulling teeth...

There were other issues that occured early in our relationship, I won't go into all of those here, but let's just say that when she was in Russia, she told me her main interest was in having "family and husband, home and children".

Once she got to America she was working in a beauty salon, NOT a good place to get "americanized" either, and totally into her own shopping for her own things (never for house or for food, supplies, garden, etc.)

Meanwhile I'd bought a house a few months after we got married. I told her the first few years would be a bit tough financially and things would be "tight". Most americans can understand this. All she knew is here I'm getting this big paycheck, but she had more "disposable" income than me in her minimum wage job. Because I was paying for EVERYTHING else... food, insurance, cable, electricity, mortgage, credit cards, you know the American bill-paying list we go through...

It got so I couldn't tell her ANYTHING, not even how to do X, Y or Z without getting back"why is this so important?", or "Lena says I should do this..."

Finally I was like, well go marry Lena then if you want to listen to her instead of to your husband... mind you this wasn't a one time occurance but it felt like "friends" from beauty salon and Russian girlfriend (married and bored in America) were more interesting to her than "home, family, husband". Forget children, she decided pretty quickly she didn't want this, because then she'd be "staying home all day" and "never get to talk to adults".

Then what the hell did I get married for, and why the hell did you tell me you wanted this when you were in Russia?

Ohhhhhhhh I see, that was BEFORE you had marriage and Visa to America?? Go figure...

I believe she "loved" me initially to want to do this, but I cannot believe that she didn't arrive in America without "Plan B" in her pocket. I think from day one she decided she'd see how things went and then decide what to do.

I don't really feel like she was committed to the marriage itself, again, I am interpreting her actions based on the filter of my own viewpoint, but it just seems like perhaps she wasn't IN LOVE with me, she cared for me, and knew this was "good opportunity" to start new life. So in her mind it was "let's get married and we'll see what happens..."

Well now, she's on her own, she's making minimum wage (barely) and has an extra $12,000 (divorce settlement) and frankly that's not going to last long in America. Unless she finds someone else to "take care of her"... but even still...

She was very very good at learning language and learning a LOT of other things, and don't get me wrong, I am not a total control freak, but I do expect to be able to TELL someone how something works in America and not get a song and dance every single time about "why is this so important?". And then she'd do it her way ANYWAY... or lie to my face about what she had done... I caught her in more than one lie right to my face... about relatively minor stuff in fact...

If just ONCE she had tried to say to me "Ok, you are my husband, I'll try to do it this way because I love you and want to make you happy", things might have been a lot different.

Anyway, I just think she took to American culture like a duck to water, except now she's paddled off and she thinks it's her very own pond to swim in...

Frankly be VERY wary of "well meaning" Russian girlfriends who will want to be there to "help her"... I think two of them in particular, who were actually AT our wedding, were the first ones helping her out the damn door... one of them literally...

In fact one of them was there, picking her up with all her stuff on the day she left. When I started to tell her about something that happened (a very contrived sort of domestic disturbance thing.. NO violence, or arrest or anything like that...) she said to me: "I don't want to get involved in your guy's stuff..."

I felt like telling her: "well considering you've been in my wife's ear since the very first day she got here, you even tried to re-arrange OUR wedding to suit ~you~ , and considering that now you're the one who's driving away with her, with four suitcases in the back of your car, as she leaves me, so she can go live with you for a while... I think you're already waaaaaay too damn involved.... "

Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

I just kept my mouth shut and closed the door.

-- Dan

[slim 1,525]

Dan, I really think that you're going to be able to find "a keeper" this time around.

I was lucky enough to have relationships with several different Russian girls while I was in the military overseas, and it took one that wanted to get married and see what would happen to really make me understand that the one I needed to marry was the one that didn't really care what happened, but just wanted to be together.

I love asking them the question "So how about I just move over there to be with you.... would you like that?"

That usually sifts through the BS for you, and makes it obvious pretty quickly what her intentions are. (I still can't get Elena to say "I want to move to the U.S., all she says is "I just want to be together, if we are here or if we are there, I don't care." GOOD ANSWER!!!)

With your experience now, you'll be able to find the good one!

[Laveau 67]

Yeah, my fiance intially said that he didn't know when I asked him what he's heard about Russian men. But then he ended up emphasizing that a disproportionate number of men in Russia are alcoholics.

And Dan, sorry again about what happened with the ex. Do you still have any contact with her or her family?

[Neonred 3,562]

Dan, I really think that you're going to be able to find "a keeper" this time around.

I was lucky enough to have relationships with several different Russian girls while I was in the military overseas, and it took one that wanted to get married and see what would happen to really make me understand that the one I needed to marry was the one that didn't really care what happened, but just wanted to be together.

I love asking them the question "So how about I just move over there to be with you.... would you like that?"

That usually sifts through the BS for you, and makes it obvious pretty quickly what her intentions are. (I still can't get Elena to say "I want to move to the U.S., all she says is "I just want to be together, if we are here or if we are there, I don't care." GOOD ANSWER!!!)

With your experience now, you'll be able to find the good one!

Ditto....

My wife still hopes we will move back to Russia, at least to spend the summers there. Now that "we" have our own apartment there our plan is to be able to do that some time in the future. At least that is the plan...

[slim 1,525]

Dan, I really think that you're going to be able to find "a keeper" this time around.

I was lucky enough to have relationships with several different Russian girls while I was in the military overseas, and it took one that wanted to get married and see what would happen to really make me understand that the one I needed to marry was the one that didn't really care what happened, but just wanted to be together.

I love asking them the question "So how about I just move over there to be with you.... would you like that?"

That usually sifts through the BS for you, and makes it obvious pretty quickly what her intentions are. (I still can't get Elena to say "I want to move to the U.S., all she says is "I just want to be together, if we are here or if we are there, I don't care." GOOD ANSWER!!!)

With your experience now, you'll be able to find the good one!

Ditto....

My wife still hopes we will move back to Russia, at least to spend the summers there. Now that "we" have our own apartment there our plan is to be able to do that some time in the future. At least that is the plan...

Same here! We're going to try to work here for a few years, save up a little money, then move to Russia.

[PurrSuede 0]

And Dan, sorry again about what happened with the ex. Do you still have any contact with her or her family?

I know where she works. That's it. I still have one more payment of $4,000 I'm supposed to give to her under the divorce decree. I know she had a problem getting a car. She did NOT get either of my cars from the divorce because both of these were mine before marriage. She's in a minimum wage job with no credit history. They finally got her approved and she's driving something now to her work. I don't know where she's living now. I really don't want to have much contact with her other than to pay her off and be done with her.

If I go back to her home town in Russia I ~might~ consider talking to her mother. I don't know if there's anything to truly be gained by that, though...

-- Dan

Dan, I really think that you're going to be able to find "a keeper" this time around.

I was lucky enough to have relationships with several different Russian girls while I was in the military overseas, and it took one that wanted to get married and see what would happen to really make me understand that the one I needed to marry was the one that didn't really care what happened, but just wanted to be together.

I love asking them the question "So how about I just move over there to be with you.... would you like that?"

That usually sifts through the BS for you, and makes it obvious pretty quickly what her intentions are. (I still can't get Elena to say "I want to move to the U.S., all she says is "I just want to be together, if we are here or if we are there, I don't care." GOOD ANSWER!!!)

With your experience now, you'll be able to find the good one!

Slim: that's great information. And yes, I've refocused on a number of things. It's a bit easier to see "red flags" after you've been burned, though...

And yes, I really appreciate your thoughts and input. Call me crazy but I just gotta get right back on that horse...

-- Dan

Edited August 14, 2006 by PurrSuede

[Aussielad 37]

just dont rush into anything....take ya time....especially if they are in Russia,....cos they arent going ANYWHERE....trust me when i say that.

[Satellite 1]

It's a bit easier to see "red flags" after you've been burned, though...

To be honest any Russian lady who has her mind set on "using" you until she gets a 10 year permanent green card or citizenship is not going to give away her position until the very end. There are plenty of ladies who will be "very sincere and love you" right up until they get the irrevocable immigration benefit. Sorry to be so pessimistic but I've spoken to too many Russian ladies both in Russia and in the USA after their successful "usage" of the rich gullible American. But like always I wish everyone the best of luck to find a "good one".

[Laveau 67]

And yes, I really appreciate your thoughts and input. Call me crazy but I just gotta get right back on that horse...

-- Dan

You're not crazy. You have a positive attitude and it's great that you don't hold it against all (Russian)women because of your prior experience. I have two failed marraiges under my belt. My parents and brother think I'm totally stupid for ever marrying again. They think I should be alone and say as much. I, on the other hand, refuse to "man hate" because of the effed up few I have come across. Good luck to you! You seem like a really decent guy.

Sylvia