Vietnam Traditions and the visa

[ScottThuy 140]

This has been discussed previously, but for those approaching the interview, it may be helpful to discuss it again in a specific context....

The Consulate has an expectation that the couple adhere to VN traditionas.. including the Dam Hoi, Dinh Hon etc... In many cases the USC is not Viet Kieu and the VNC is very westernized or no longer adheres to traditions... or they both have a common tradition from a culture other than VN...

If a couple did not have a Dam Hoi... how should they respond to the CO when asked why did you not have one? Should this be a component in the reasons for denial as has been seen in the past?

In VN everything is planned in detail ahead of time.. including the wedding... since they say.. Do not make any plans before the visa is issued, it is said to resppond.. no we dont have plans for the specific location etc.. as directed... but others have been denied citing the lack of wedding details at the interview... would it be beneficial for those interviewing to have some example of where they will get married even if that is not the real intention?

In a nutshell.. if the couple has not done things that the CO will likely expect... how should this be addressed without making too much of an issue out of it.... it has been noted previously that trying to addresss a red flag ineffectively is like waving that red flag high in the face of the CO....

[BurningFinger 5]

Scott,

I understand your concerns. This Dam Hoi or Dinh Hon thing is very interesting. Honestly, I don't think the Consulate "expects" you to have one. I think they use it as a reason to Blue Slip if you if they find something about you or your fiance that they just don't like. In other words, the Consulate sees something that resembles a red flag in your case and they dig and dig and dig until they just decide to Blue Slip you and if you didn't have a Dinh Hon, they will put that on the Blue Slip as one of the reasons. The only reason I feel this way is because of the guy "wratran" who used to post here a while back. I mean this guy basically met his fiance on a dating website and got engaged 1 month later to his fiance in Vietnam! He didn't even have a Dinh Hon. He just had some informal ceremony with about 10-15 people. I remember he posted his time line for us to see and I saw him describe it in there. No fancy dresses, no fancy celebration, just a simple asking his fiance's family for her hand in marriage. Granted that could still be considered a "ceremony" of sorts, but it is nothing compared to the full blown Dinh Hon ceremonies most of us have had. By the way, he ended up getting a Pink Slip.

As for the wedding plans, I don't know what to say about that. I thought about this heavily while deciding between the K1 and CR1. I too thought about the potential complications I would have to face in terms of how to answer the wedding plan questions to the CO if we went the K1 route. This was one of many reasons I decided to go the CR1 route because I think the CO's are being ridiculous when they say not to make any plans before the issuance of the K1 visa, but then they can still grill you about wedding plans at the interview.

For those that have not yet filed their petitions, you should consider getting married and going the CR1 route IF you have major concerns about wedding plans.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

The CO probably has five or ten minutes, at most, to look over your petition package and make a preliminary decision. They have a bullet list, of some sort, of things they are looking for. Traditional engagement, multiple trips to visit beneficiary, good financial status, etc. If any of these things are missing, they're going to dig deeper into the case.

If you know, in advance of filing the petition, that some of these things are missing from your case then I think the best approach is to provide the missing elements, rather than try to explain why they are missing. How difficult would it be to go ahead and have the Dam Hoi, even if the VNC is westernized or modern? How difficult would it be to wait a little longer and make a couple more trips to VN? How big of a sacrifice are these things if they remove a potential reason for denial, and ultimately mean you'll be together in the US sooner?

Yes, you're not supposed to make any concrete plans before getting the visa, but if you know you could get dinged for this at the interview then what's the harm in at least preparing an answer for the question, even if it isn't what you ultimately end up doing? Besides, you only have 90 days to get married with a K1. Wouldn't someone at least have given it some thought?

Many red flags can be fixed if you know about them in advance. You should only need to address the ones that can't be fixed.

[ScottThuy 140]

I see many people that realize what the consulate is looking for (by finding this site) after the petition has been filed... and now they realize that there are things that could be red flags at the interview which have not been done or are not a priority to them but could be an issue to the CO...

Example.. I recently talked to a guy that already filed some months ago... they did not have a Dam hoi or dinh hon... he actually did not know what they are as many of us at one point... since the case has been filed.. the question may come up at the interview.. did you have a dam hoi? why not?...

I agree that the CO's just use these things as excuses for denials.. as noted in that recent Writ of Mandumus filing.. right or wrong.. they still hold them against us...

[vietazn 1]

Consulate does not want people to make drastic plans like quitting job or buying a plane ticket on a specific date until after the visa is issued.

But it does not mean you can't or shouldn't make wedding plans. The wedding plans should be made on the assumption that the visa will be issued, even if it isn't issued. It is good to have specific date and plans within the expected time frame for normal visa issuance, with consideration to possible extra delay of blue slip, but also allow that the plans can be subject to change to comply with the 90 day requirement. That's what we did.

As for Dam Hoi, there are several good reasons for not having one. For example, when the couple are older or if either one has already had one in the past, then it's very acceptable not to have one.

[luckytxn 2,264]

It is hard to say what will be a red flag that they will zero in on for sure until the moment of truth comes. At my babes interview she had the tough old infamous Korean broad and the questioning was getting tough but my babe hung in there. It was asked what her plans were for getting married and my babe simply said that when she is issued the visa we will be getting married by a civil right away and then plan the big church wedding afterwards but they were holding us up to make final plans. No more was asked about it after that.

As for the red flags then it is harder to answer what should be the proper front load to do or even to mention. I never mentioned the one red flag that I felt was possible and had no defense for and that was that my babes Uncle and Aunt paid for my ticket to fly there. As we all know that is a big no no to do. I had no idea that it was a no no and a visa killer at that time. I decided not to even mention it at all and hope it was not asked.

They paid for my ticket which was around 950.00 dollars. I just took that amount in cash and brought it with me and gave it to the Uncle when we arrived in VN. He brings a good amount of money when he comes in a money belt and had the limit he is allowed to bring in. I brought the amount of my ticket to give him and an extra 1000.00 to spend for myself. Now it is usual for people to do this for each other and happens all the time to circumvent the currency restrictions. He then takes the money and then hands it out to whoever. I even gave him what I had left over (about 500.00 dollars) at the end of the visit to pass out as he saw fit (After I gave my babe a good amount). We had already gone over what to say at the interview and explain that this is what we did if it came up but doubt they would have believed this but never know as it is done all the time as I am sure they know.

Now when I returned to do the visa I found out that it was a big no no and red flag to have the family pay for the ticket and explained this to them and we tried to come up with a way to satisfy the requirement but felt it was too late and further shenanigans would further look worse. I just decided to not even mention this and try to explain on a front load and hope it didn't come up. It didn't but if it had it was going to be a very long haul and determined to hunker down and wait for many years if we had too and as we were determined that we both wanted each other for the rest of our lives.

Now for the engagement party I didn't even know we were required to have one. After I arrived I knew the tradition was to ask the father if it was OK for us to become engaged and did so the second day. He said it was OK and welcomed me by drinking shots of his "special" high octane "medicine". A party was arranged for a few days ahead to welcome me and so on but they always do this when any relative comes to visit. I knew that it was largely for my doing also and much family was coming so I offered to buy the food but the Uncle said that No he would pay. A couple of days later the party happened at their house or a more of a compound they have. It was a huge affair and the Uncle and I was at the head of the table as the guests of honor. I took a ton of pics. I sent many pics with the petition saying this was the engagement party. (It was but wasn't) It was pretty much a combined party. The family is very frugal there and will not spring for tables at restaurants and such and usually do everything themselves anyway. I just sent the pics saying that was the party and little else said about it. My thought was to keep it simple as possible.

Now I only made that one trip at that time and we really only had proof on chatting for about 4 months before. I knew her and we had chatted for awhile before even that but never knew we had to prove ongoing and stuff so I started to keep the logs a few months before going to meet her. I did on the how did we meet part of the petition say this that we had known of each other and started the meeting us and started to keep the logs about this time. This was a form of front loading of addressing a a known red flag but it was weak. Not much else I could do about that though.

Now it is a big red flag to be introduced by a family member. I was by the Aunt and mentioned this but what else could I have done? Well I decided to show a strong hand on the financial part when we did the interview and banking stuff. I sent along with my bank info and pay proof a copy of my house deed that showed I had my own house way before I met the family member here. I sent also along the financials of two 401K's to show a good amount in them. I also as icing on the cake sent along several copies of deeds on a few parcels of land I own. Also the regular financials of bank info showed I had a goodly amount of checking and savings. And always had for many years. The letter from my bank showed I had been a long time member there. Not much more I could do then this but it did show a strong financial footing for me. I have said that it is best to just do the minimum and let them find out the rest but I felt it was best to hit them hard on this to show I am strong financially. Everything else was pretty weak and minimal but I did qualify to do a petition.

Now I did think about to send a copy of my university diploma and a resume to show I had been a Chemist for 15 years in the petroleum industry and even a Vice President of the Gulf coast at a business I worked at for years but it was about 10 years before that and I had been a truck driver for about 10 years at this point so I left this out. I did at that time of the petition felt that maybe me being a truck driver may be seen at the consulate as an inferior position and wanted to show a superior position previous but eventually decided to let the die roll on this. I did make a pretty good amount for years and probably more than most that applied and what was the use anyway? I did feel that the diploma may open up the interview to questioning of my babe about what university and what kind of degree I had and so on to her and decided to just let it go. I did feel they can do a search and maybe find out that I did have one and the kind of career I had so I did go over all this with her just in case. They asked nothing about my career now and then anyway but at least we were covered somewhat.

The interview did take a strange turn and she was grilled about my hobbies and stuff and who my friend was and I actually spent little time with her on this. She fended it off well to her credit. She was asked about an ex wife I had 15 years ago before and just said I was and she knew little as she didn't want or care about that. Surprisingly they let that go. Very little family stuff and little about where I lived and stuff. It seemed very different than what many interviews questions I have heard about.

All in all I really have no idea why I am now married to a awesome babe and we are very happy. I do know that we have to be very careful about front loading for what we perceive to be red flags. Some things will bite in the azz and may spell doom. If I had front loaded about half of my red flags I probably would still be in AP hell.