Dual Citizenship and surrendering Ukrainian one

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

A Ukrainian does lose her Ukrainian citizenship when becoming a US citizen. The action is called voluntarily acquisition of a foreign citizenship.

The passport, even if it has a validity date beyond her naturalization, becomes invalid the moment she becomes a US citizen. If she uses her Ukrainian passport when she is no Ukrainian citizen (anymore), it's equal to using a 'fake' passport or another person's passport. Gross misrepresenation, Gary, and a friend of mine went to jail in Gemany for it and was banned for lifetime to ever visit his "old" country again.

Was that a trick question?

Here is the trick question, Bob

Show me where the penalty is the same as for a fake passport. Should be no problem for you, just link to the penalty statute in Ukraine. I really do not give a rat's @ss about what happens in Germany.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So basically the passport is valid until the Ukrainian Government specifically says its invalid. It doesn't just magically happen the minute you swear an oath in another country. Or at least that's my take.

Oh #######. That would mean Bob is wrong. It would also mean he is applying some law from Germany (or just his imagination) to Ukraine which has no bearing whatsoever.

For the record...NO the USA does not inform any country that you have become a citizen of the US. Ukraine will have NO RECORD, ever, that you have become a US citizen, unless you tell them. It therefore becomes impossible for them to enforce or prosecute any such law. Bob will not be able to find any instances of it to link to.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

A Ukrainian does lose her Ukrainian citizenship when becoming a US citizen. The action is called voluntarily acquisition of a foreign citizenship.

The passport, even if it has a validity date beyond her naturalization, becomes invalid the moment she becomes a US citizen. If she uses her Ukrainian passport when she is no Ukrainian citizen (anymore), it's equal to using a 'fake' passport or another person's passport. Gross misrepresenation, Gary, and a friend of mine went to jail in Gemany for it and was banned for lifetime to ever visit his "old" country again.

Was that a trick question?

In the wake of Russia passing a law in 2008 "Allowing" it to invade other countries to "protect its citizens" and subsequently invading Georgia, Ukraine invoked this provision in their law (it is a sometimes thing) As of today, a Ukrainian CAN lose their citizenship by being a citizen of another country. The new President is much more friendly with Russia and this provision may be put aside again, though technically they still would not "recognize" foreign citizenship...neither does the USA.

Bob, it just really is not so drmatic as you insinuate. It was a political move to counter a Russian threat that no longer exists (at least as of today, that seems to also come and go)

I have several acquaitances with both US and Ukrainian passports and they have had not a bit of trouble to date. Several have renewed their passports, one even after it had expired by showing their birth certificate. I am not aware that Ukraine imprisons any Ukraine born citizens for using a Ukrainian passport to enter Ukraine. Russia couldn't possibly care less if a Ukrainian is also a USA citizen, Russia allows dual citizenship.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[SMR 368]

A Ukrainian does lose her Ukrainian citizenship when becoming a US citizen. The action is called voluntarily acquisition of a foreign citizenship.

The passport, even if it has a validity date beyond her naturalization, becomes invalid the moment she becomes a US citizen. If she uses her Ukrainian passport when she is no Ukrainian citizen (anymore), it's equal to using a 'fake' passport or another person's passport. Gross misrepresenation, Gary, and a friend of mine went to jail in Gemany for it and was banned for lifetime to ever visit his "old" country again.

Was that a trick question?

German laws don't necessarily apply to Ukraine. Every country has different laws.

You look silly and self-righteous when you start inserting your own moral judgments and perceptions of consequences in situations you obviously know very little about.

Ukraine and Russia aren't Germany and if you come around in the beginning of May they'll make sure you hear about it.

Edited July 1, 2010 by SMR

[Martyshk 137]

Ukraine and Russia aren't Germany and if you come around in the beginning of May they'll make sure you hear about it.

[LvivLovers 39]

For instance I found this on the UN website:

There is no automatic loss of Ukranian citizenship, neither upon emigration nor upon acquisition of another citizenship. Ukraine does not formally recognize dual citizenship with Israel or other countries; however, to lose citizenship, a person must formally request renunciation of their Ukrainian citizenship from Ukrainian authorities, and that process is neither automatic nor immediate.

That appears to me to be old information. It used to be that way, but as per what Gary was saying, after the invasion of Georgia, I think Ukraine changed the rules. I believe this is the most current information:

The citizenship may be lost in the following cases.

• Voluntary: Voluntary renunciation of Ukrainian citizenship is permitted by law.
• Involuntary: The following are grounds for involuntary loss of Ukrainian citizenship:
  • Person voluntarily acquires a foreign citizenship

I'm still not sure what the following means though:

The decision on involuntary termination of Ukrainian citizenship can only be adopted by the President.

It almost sounds to me like the President must declare the citizenship to be terminated. Also the above quote says that citizenship *may* be lost. So this may be something where Ukraine reserves the right to terminate the citizenship but won't necessarily do so. Thoughts?

[captainofiron 2]

It almost sounds to me like the President must declare the citizenship to be terminated. Also the above quote says that citizenship *may* be lost. So this may be something where Ukraine reserves the right to terminate the citizenship but won't necessarily do so. Thoughts?

honestly for me, I think there are larger issues for the Ukrainian government to be doing all this paper work to terminate citizenship and deal with these matters, which is why I think there is so much neglect in this issue, yes the "Georgia" citizenship law was a kneejerk reaction, which probably explains why its not enforced

[Noel194 53]

Katya had to surrender her internal passport before she could legally immigrate to the USA. I have heard about this problem before and Ukrainian citizens must obtain an exit visa before the can legally immigrate to another country. If she returns to the Ukraine it is possible she could be jailed or at least not allowed to leave. She is not legally allowed to be in possession of an internal passport if she is not currently in citizen resident of Ukraine. Keep in mind we are talking about internal passport vs International passport.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Noel194

[captainofiron 2]

Katya had to surrender her internal passport before she could legally immigrate to the USA. I have heard about this problem before and Ukrainian citizens must obtain an exit visa before the can legally immigrate to another country. If she returns to the Ukraine it is possible she could be jailed or at least not allowed to leave. She is not legally allowed to be in possession of an internal passport if she is not currently in citizen resident of Ukraine. Keep in mind we are talking about internal passport vs International passport.

well actually my fiancee only has the internal passport and has never had an international passport through ukraine, and she hasnt lived there for many many years

[Noel194 53]

Well there are many Ukraine citizens who move without getting an exit visa but when they return it can cause problems. It is kind of like not filing a tax return you can get away with it for years but eventually it catches up to you.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I thought exit visa no longer exist except in Uzbekistan (with regard to former USSR holdings).

http://enews.ferghana.ru/article.php?id=1956

Edited July 1, 2010 by Sousuke

[LvivLovers 39]

Well my wife (permanent resident of USA) recently went back to Ukraine for the first time. She had never done any kind of exit visa...they didn't give her any problems at all. Hopefully, there won't be any problems in the future either, but I'll always continue to monitor these threads for just such a purpose.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

German laws don't necessarily apply to Ukraine. Every country has different laws.

You look silly and self-righteous when you start inserting your own moral judgments and perceptions of consequences in situations you obviously know very little about.

Ukraine and Russia aren't Germany and if you come around in the beginning of May they'll make sure you hear about it.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well my wife (permanent resident of USA) recently went back to Ukraine for the first time. She had never done any kind of exit visa...they didn't give her any problems at all. Hopefully, there won't be any problems in the future either, but I'll always continue to monitor these threads for just such a purpose.

I am happy to say that Alla has been here long enough ( ) to have since returned and re-entered the US more than once, and our son has done so also, now twice, from Russia and never had a problem. Hardly a question asked. Sergey was out of the country for 10 months, just returned and the only question asked was "Are you a student in Russia?" That was it. He answered "Yes" and offered his student ID, but they didn't look at it.

Also we live "danger close" to Canada and we often go to Montreal. While it may not be exactly the same (but then again it MAY be exactly the same) she never has a problem re-entering just with her green card (no passport needed for her to go to Canada)

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Katya had to surrender her internal passport before she could legally immigrate to the USA. I have heard about this problem before and Ukrainian citizens must obtain an exit visa before the can legally immigrate to another country. If she returns to the Ukraine it is possible she could be jailed or at least not allowed to leave. She is not legally allowed to be in possession of an internal passport if she is not currently in citizen resident of Ukraine. Keep in mind we are talking about internal passport vs International passport.

News to me. Three people in this faily have Ukraine internal passports in their drawers, right here in the USA! We have traveled back and returned and never had an "exit visa" and never heard of one. When did this occur? there were major changes in Ukrainian visa rules in 2005.

Actually what you are saying makes no sense. a K visa is not an immigrant visa, so why would someone have to give up their internal passport to travel on a K visa? Kepp in mind that there is lots of misinformation in Ukraine...LOTS and she have been misinformed, even by officials. Alla was told she had to get "tax documents" to show she didn't owe any taxes before leaving. She went all over collecting these stupid documents, which she DID NOT NEED. Her source of misinformation? An old government poster on the wall at the medical clinic.