Dual Citizenship and surrendering Ukrainian one

[captainofiron 2]

Well I had a question

My Fiancee has citizenship in Russia and Ukraine, yes we know its illegal in Ukraine.

Anyways, she has lived in Russia for a long time, and has traveled internationally with her Russian passport also we are getting her K1 visa through Russia and the US embassy in Moscow.

She was thinking to surrender her Ukrainian Citizenship, but really doesnt know how, and the websites for the Ukrainian embassies are terrible. She is worried about renewing her passport in Ukraine because it expires when she turns 25, and she is afraid that she could get her parents in trouble.

Does anybody know about this topic or have first/second hand experience?

She does NOT have an international passport through Ukraine only the internal passport.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well I had a question

My Fiancee has citizenship in Russia and Ukraine, yes we know its illegal in Ukraine.

Anyways, she has lived in Russia for a long time, and has traveled internationally with her Russian passport also we are getting her K1 visa through Russia and the US embassy in Moscow.

She was thinking to surrender her Ukrainian Citizenship, but really doesnt know how, and the websites for the Ukrainian embassies are terrible. She is worried about renewing her passport in Ukraine because it expires when she turns 25, and she is afraid that she could get her parents in trouble.

Does anybody know about this topic or have first/second hand experience?

She does NOT have an international passport through Ukraine only the internal passport.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

The question would be "Why"? Why not just keep it? No one is going to tell the Ukrainian authorities. Ukraine has a new government, freindlier with Russia and they may just change this law which was aimed at Russian/Ukrainian dual citizenship. After Russia's incursion into Georgia to "protect it's citizens" (and signal a stern "you're next!" to Ukraine) Ukraine strengthened thewir laws against ANY dual citizenship. Russia will issue a passport to an Ukrainian with their nationality listed as "Russian" on their passport. Ukraine did not want to wake up and find 90% of Donetsk and Kharkov Oblasti residents are Russian citizens. It was all political nose tweaking, which may change now and the Kiev government may be more inclined to be friendly with Russia. Who knows, maybe they will lift the ban? The ban applies to ALL countries because while Russia was the main reason for the law, the "Chicken Kiev" government didn't have the NADS just to ban dual citizenship with Russia and made it across the board so as not to "offend anyone"

But no one will know any the better. She has a Ukrainian birth certificate and if she keeps her mouth closed she can keep her Ukrainian passport (renew it in Ukraine, NOT in the USA) However, on the other hand, the Ukrainian passport would be of very little value as long as she has a Russian passport and Russia allows dual citizenship with the USA. I would just keep it and not worry about it, whether she renews it or not really won't make much difference.

[captainofiron 2]

The question would be "Why"? Why not just keep it? No one is going to tell the Ukrainian authorities. Ukraine has a new government, freindlier with Russia and they may just change this law which was aimed at Russian/Ukrainian dual citizenship. After Russia's incursion into Georgia to "protect it's citizens" (and signal a stern "you're next!" to Ukraine) Ukraine strengthened thewir laws against ANY dual citizenship. Russia will issue a passport to an Ukrainian with their nationality listed as "Russian" on their passport. Ukraine did not want to wake up and find 90% of Donetsk and Kharkov Oblasti residents are Russian citizens. It was all political nose tweaking, which may change now and the Kiev government may be more inclined to be friendly with Russia. Who knows, maybe they will lift the ban? The ban applies to ALL countries because while Russia was the main reason for the law, the "Chicken Kiev" government didn't have the NADS just to ban dual citizenship with Russia and made it across the board so as not to "offend anyone"

But no one will know any the better. She has a Ukrainian birth certificate and if she keeps her mouth closed she can keep her Ukrainian passport (renew it in Ukraine, NOT in the USA) However, on the other hand, the Ukrainian passport would be of very little value as long as she has a Russian passport and Russia allows dual citizenship with the USA. I would just keep it and not worry about it, whether she renews it or not really won't make much difference.

Thanks Gary, you are very helpful and knowledgeable as usual

I told her to just keep it, but she just finds stuff to worry about, she was afraid that the USA will find out this and not give her the visa, or that when she will come from the USA to Ukraine they will detain her in Ukraine for having a Russian international passport.

For some reason she thinks that the governments would talk to eachother just to bust her.

I told her how many times have you gone between Russia and Ukraine with your Russian passport and they havent ever told you anything? I told her it would be the same on the airplane. I just think they have these preconceived notions from the Soviet days intended to keep the people in the USSR you know?

I told her to not worry about it and just keep it.

Why couldnt she renew it here at the Embassy?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thanks Gary, you are very helpful and knowledgeable as usual

I told her to just keep it, but she just finds stuff to worry about, she was afraid that the USA will find out this and not give her the visa, or that when she will come from the USA to Ukraine they will detain her in Ukraine for having a Russian international passport.

For some reason she thinks that the governments would talk to eachother just to bust her.

I told her how many times have you gone between Russia and Ukraine with your Russian passport and they havent ever told you anything? I told her it would be the same on the airplane. I just think they have these preconceived notions from the Soviet days intended to keep the people in the USSR you know?

I told her to not worry about it and just keep it.

Why couldnt she renew it here at the Embassy?

No one is going to tell anyne anything. The US government couldn't care less and neither could the Russian government. Nothing to worry about.

If she is renewing her passport in the US she will have to register her pemanent residency here and THAT could raise questions.

[captainofiron 2]

No one is going to tell anyne anything. The US government couldn't care less and neither could the Russian government. Nothing to worry about.

If she is renewing her passport in the US she will have to register her pemanent residency here and THAT could raise questions.

Thats what I thought

What would be the consequences if she does not renew her internal passport at 25?

Im just trying to have all the options thought out you know?

[captainofiron 2]

Well she is worried that there will be a problem at the POE at Borispol, that somehow they will know she is Ukrainian and Russian citizen.

If she were to surrender her Ukrainian citizenship what would be the best course of action?

I suggested that she do this in Ukraine, but her parents told her to go to the embassy in Moscow.

I dont think that is such a good idea, since she is supposed to be in Ukraine, but what do you think would be the best option?

Ive managed to calm her down so she isnt worried about it any more but she does want to begin planning (shes got a type A personality haha)

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well she is worried that there will be a problem at the POE at Borispol, that somehow they will know she is Ukrainian and Russian citizen.

If she were to surrender her Ukrainian citizenship what would be the best course of action?

I suggested that she do this in Ukraine, but her parents told her to go to the embassy in Moscow.

I dont think that is such a good idea, since she is supposed to be in Ukraine, but what do you think would be the best option?

Ive managed to calm her down so she isnt worried about it any more but she does want to begin planning (shes got a type A personality haha)

I do not know what will happen if she does not renew her internal passport. Probably nothing, but I would anyway. I know Alla intends to. Alla and I travel to Ukraine 1-2 times per year so she will just do it on one of our visits, no big deal. I do not know the procedure to surrender Ukrainian citizenship, it is not something we intend to do.

How would anyone know at Borispol? If she is worried about that, then just use her Ukrainian passport to enter Ukraine. Show both when leaving the US and show only the Ukrainian one when she enters Ukraine.

It is n't that she is a type A personality, it is that she is an FSU woman. (Woman in general actually) Alla says "If I needed a reason to worry...I would be a man"

I would just toss it in the sock drawer and forget it.

Alla intends to be a US citizen and keep her Ukrainian passport current. She will not have any need to use the Ukrainian passport except when we go to Russia. Using that she will not need a visa. Other than that, their is absolutely no benefit to traveling on a Ukrainian passport and it will stay in the sock drawer. She will also keep it so that at some point, maybe after I am gone, she can return to Ukraine if she wants, though right now she says she would not. In fact we have made plans for her to maintain her US residency and receive citizenship if anything happens to me. I had a life threatenig medical condition a few months ago and so it is something we have covered with specific plans and directions, both to her and my brother, the executor of my estate.

Anyway, it just isn't something to get all worried about. However, Alla is listed in her passport as being "Russian" and Russia would issue her citizenship and she has said that if Ukraine started to really enforce the law, she would apply for a Russian passport. With either should could go back and live in either Russia or Ukraine, plus travel to any former CIS country without a visa. She really isn't too particular. In your fiancees case, nothing is lost if she surrenders her Ukrainian citizenship.

[captainofiron 2]

I do not know what will happen if she does not renew her internal passport. Probably nothing, but I would anyway. I know Alla intends to. Alla and I travel to Ukraine 1-2 times per year so she will just do it on one of our visits, no big deal. I do not know the procedure to surrender Ukrainian citizenship, it is not something we intend to do.

How would anyone know at Borispol? If she is worried about that, then just use her Ukrainian passport to enter Ukraine. Show both when leaving the US and show only the Ukrainian one when she enters Ukraine.

It is n't that she is a type A personality, it is that she is an FSU woman. (Woman in general actually) Alla says "If I needed a reason to worry...I would be a man"

I would just toss it in the sock drawer and forget it.

Alla intends to be a US citizen and keep her Ukrainian passport current. She will not have any need to use the Ukrainian passport except when we go to Russia. Using that she will not need a visa. Other than that, their is absolutely no benefit to traveling on a Ukrainian passport and it will stay in the sock drawer. She will also keep it so that at some point, maybe after I am gone, she can return to Ukraine if she wants, though right now she says she would not. In fact we have made plans for her to maintain her US residency and receive citizenship if anything happens to me. I had a life threatenig medical condition a few months ago and so it is something we have covered with specific plans and directions, both to her and my brother, the executor of my estate.

Anyway, it just isn't something to get all worried about. However, Alla is listed in her passport as being "Russian" and Russia would issue her citizenship and she has said that if Ukraine started to really enforce the law, she would apply for a Russian passport. With either should could go back and live in either Russia or Ukraine, plus travel to any former CIS country without a visa. She really isn't too particular. In your fiancees case, nothing is lost if she surrenders her Ukrainian citizenship.

Great thanks

She is going to email the embassy and see what they tell her about surrendering the citizenship, she read on a Russian K1 forum that all you need is a notarized letter saying I renounce my ukrainian citizenship.

Sorry to hear about your medical ordeal, I hope everything turns out fine.

I have told her just to continue using the Russian international passport, she doesnt even have the ukrainian passport with her, its with her extended families storage back home.

Anyways, thanks alot. She is actually feeling alot better hearing this from someone with first hand experience.

I appreciate it

[payxibka 10,045]

How would anyone know at Borispol? If she is worried about that, then just use her Ukrainian passport to enter Ukraine. Show both when leaving the US and show only the Ukrainian one when she enters Ukraine.

If she is departing for the USA, she will need to show that she has the proper permission to seek entry into the USA. Her Ukrainian passport alone without a visa does not work. So she will have to try and leave Ukraine on her US passport .... the problem is that it was never stamped for entry into Ukraine.... I assume they look for the entry stamp, but don't know for sure... If they do look for an entry stamp, how will she explain how she entered? If that is questioned, then she will have to produce her Ukrainian passport and then all of a sudden something is known. Will they inquire or do something? I don't know.

Edited June 29, 2010 by payxibka

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If she is departing for the USA, she will need to show that she has the proper permission to seek entry into the USA. Her Ukrainian passport alone without a visa does not work. So she will have to try and leave Ukraine on her US passport .... the problem is that it was never stamped for entry into Ukraine.... I assume they look for the entry stamp, but don't know for sure... If they do look for an entry stamp, how will she explain how she entered? If that is questioned, then she will have to produce her Ukrainian passport and then all of a sudden something is known. Will they inquire or do something? I don't know.

That is why I say to leave it burried deep in the suitcase or at home. She will not need it to enter or leave Ukraine once she becomes a US citizen (or even as a Russian citizen) so why show it at all? Simply enter and leave Ukraine using the Russian or US passport (in the future). For a person that already has a dual citizenship with US/Russia for example, the Ukrainian "triple citizenship" may just be a nuisance. That would be up to her since it is her country of birth she may wish to retain citizenship there.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

For a person that already has a dual citizenship with US/Russia for example, the Ukrainian "triple citizenship" may just be a nuisance. That would be up to her since it is her country of birth she may wish to retain citizenship there.

Yet she can't.

All she can do is pretend to be still a Ukrainian citizen and using her invalid passport illegally.

Gary, I'm sympathetic to Alla's cause, but let's leave out the B.S. shall we? She might as well use a fake passport . . . same crime.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yet she can't.

All she can do is pretend to be still a Ukrainian citizen and using her invalid passport illegally.

Gary, I'm sympathetic to Alla's cause, but let's leave out the B.S. shall we? She might as well use a fake passport . . . same crime.

Except Bob, that she has no intent to "use" the passport nor would there be hardly any reason to. Except for visits to Russia, which will probably be reduced greatly when our son finishes college there (and before Alla is a US citizen) the ONLY purpose of keeping the passport is to expedite her relocating to Ukraine in the event of my death, for example. Other than "visa free" visits to former CIS countries, the Ukrainian/Russian passport has nothing on a US passport. She did not "make" her passport at the kitchen table Bob. It is not a "fake" passport. It is a genuine passport issued by the rules the of Ukraine to a Ukrainian born citizen.

And NO, a fake passport is NOT the same and the penalties for the "crime" are no where near the same. A "fake" passport is an international crime enforced by international law, among others. Country's citizenship rules are not. While you can certainly be imprisoned for using a FAKE passport, I have never heard of any Ukrainian being imprisoned for keeping a Ukrianian passport after becoming a citizen of another country. C'mon Bob, it is pretty silly to try and "make a criminal" of someone that ios merely doing what BILLIONS of other people are allowed to do without thought.

It is also silly to equate a law which varies by the vagaries of local politics with one that is international recognized as fraud. It is in no way fraudulent for Alla, or any other Ukrainian born person, to have a Ukrainian passport at any time for any reason. Just cutting through the BS, Bob.

[payxibka 10,045]

That is why I say to leave it burried deep in the suitcase or at home. She will not need it to enter or leave Ukraine once she becomes a US citizen (or even as a Russian citizen) so why show it at all? Simply enter and leave Ukraine using the Russian or US passport (in the future). For a person that already has a dual citizenship with US/Russia for example, the Ukrainian "triple citizenship" may just be a nuisance. That would be up to her since it is her country of birth she may wish to retain citizenship there.

But you said in your previous post to use the Ukrainian passport to enter.... now you say bury it deep....

[captainofiron 2]

payxibka and Just Bob

if you gentlemen are not going to read the entire thread and just make assumptions off of reading bits of the last posts out of context, please do not post.

What I think Gary meant was "How would anyone know at Borispol? If she is worried about that, then just use her RUSSIAN passport to enter Ukraine. Show both when leaving the US and show only the RUSSIAN one when she enters Ukraine."

OH by the way Gary, Yana told me to tell you "big big thanks from me. thanks him for support and help. you and he made me feel better and calm"

So thanks man I really appreciate it

Edited June 29, 2010 by captainofiron

[payxibka 10,045]

payxibka and Just Bob

if you gentlemen are not going to read the entire thread and just make assumptions off of reading bits of the last posts out of context, please do not post.

What I think Gary meant was "How would anyone know at Borispol? If she is worried about that, then just use her RUSSIAN passport to enter Ukraine. Show both when leaving the US and show only the RUSSIAN one when she enters Ukraine."

I go off what Gary actually said, not what you think Gary meant to say.. Gary is articulate enough to post his thoughts

How would anyone know at Borispol? If she is worried about that, then just use her Ukrainian passport to enter Ukraine. Show both when leaving the US and show only the Ukrainian one when she enters Ukraine.

FWIW, I did read the entire thread....

Edited June 29, 2010 by payxibka