fetus can't feel pain before 24 weeks

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I find disturbing the assumption that pain is a moral precedent. Nobody would excuse murder on the premise that the victim felt no pain.

Not guilt of murder on the basis that it didn't hurt . . . sick and wrong.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Who knows if it hurts! And what difference does it make? I guarantee it'll do a job on the woman's conscious.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'm with Lisa, and I hope she posts more ultrasounds. I'm the mom of 6. I had to bury one soon after birth. I could never kill my child in the wonb. To me, it's no different than killing them out of the womb. Pain or no pain, murder is murder; neither timing, law, or semantics change anything about that at all.

[웃 910]

I think posting an ultrasound of a baby in such a thread as this is totally justified. It's the reality of a baby inside the womb. We can't just ignore what a child at around 24 weeks looks like since they are saying it can't feel pain.

That's what I don't get. WHAT EXACTLY is offensive about posting an u/s? Or personal? Or controversial? I don't get it.

This post through me off guard. 'OMG. She posted an ultrasound of her 22 week old!!! She must lack common sense. Sooooo inappropriate!'

Seriously, ####### is offensive about the ultrasound again?

[Ban Hammer 13,491]

I'm with Lisa, and I hope she posts more ultrasounds. I'm the mom of 6. I had to bury one soon after birth. I could never kill my child in the wonb. To me, it's no different than killing them out of the womb. Pain or no pain, murder is murder; neither timing, law, or semantics change anything about that at all.

for the little one.

[Staashi 371]

I remember seeing a video of a baby crying in the womb - disturbed me to no end. I was so sad to see it as it couldn't be comforted. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/media/fetalcryingvideo.html

[chri'stina 190]

That's what I don't get. WHAT EXACTLY is offensive about posting an u/s? Or personal? Or controversial? I don't get it.

This post through me off guard. 'OMG. She posted an ultrasound of her 22 week old!!! She must lack common sense. Sooooo inappropriate!'

Seriously, ####### is offensive about the ultrasound again?

Lord Infamous agreeing with one of my posts! I knew there'd be hope for us one day.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I have to agree with those who who mention that pain is independent of whether an abortion is murder or not.

[Peikko 1,575]

I have to agree with those who who mention that pain is independent of whether an abortion is murder or not.

It is not murder, abortion is legal under 24 weeks in the UK. Murder is not the determination that something dies at another's hand, murder is unlawful killing. No one that understands abortion is ignorant of the fact that during an abortion a fetus dies - sometimes a fetus being killed is the best solution in a situation, sometimes it is not but the fact that a fetus can not feel pain is part of the equation that makes the 24 week threshold acceptable, nothing more, nothing less.

As to fetal pictures, sure, bring them on, they sure are useful in a debate on abortion, I mean, no one that has an abortion has a clue what a fetus looks like, they are always totally ignorant of the reality of what an abortion entails and posting fetal pictures suddenly makes them realize the abhorrence of the act they are undertaking. Come on people, get out all your personal ultrasound pictures and post them in an abortion thread, woop de do.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Justine+David 218]

I'm a little skeptical of this study...I work in a level 3c NICU (highest level of care for sick/preemie infants) and we've had our share of 23 weekers. At that level most of them have some sort of handicap, but some do make it out relatively unscathed. I find it hard to believe that they don't feel pain because their heart rates shoot through the roof when I move them around. Even the slightest touch stresses them out and I spend most of my time doing my best not to touch them. In any case, these kiddos just about always get morphine drips from our docs, who are at the forefront of neonatology research and care since we're a teaching hospital.

It's also disturbing that the UK allows abortions at this late stage in the game. Fairly heartbreaking to see mom's who are crying at the bedside, hoping and praying that their little one makes it through, and then to hear of others aborting their kids when they have a chance to make it to the other side at that age.

It's a hard-knock life.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Justine+David

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

It is not murder, abortion is legal under 24 weeks in the UK. Murder is not the determination that something dies at another's hand, murder is unlawful killing. No one that understands abortion is ignorant of the fact that during an abortion a fetus dies - sometimes a fetus being killed is the best solution in a situation, sometimes it is not but the fact that a fetus can not feel pain is part of the equation that makes the 24 week threshold acceptable, nothing more, nothing less.

As to fetal pictures, sure, bring them on, they sure are useful in a debate on abortion, I mean, no one that has an abortion has a clue what a fetus looks like, they are always totally ignorant of the reality of what an abortion entails and posting fetal pictures suddenly makes them realize the abhorrence of the act they are undertaking. Come on people, get out all your personal ultrasound pictures and post them in an abortion thread, woop de do.

Triage is not murder.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There is only "controversy" if you choose to be ignorant as to why late term abortions are permitted. They are permitted under very limited circumstances.

[rika60607 215]

Aha. On your 7th pregnancy you find that your fetus stopped developing and is about to cause mis-carriage. If that happens, there is a good chance that you will bleed to death. Of course, you would not even consider abortion, despite the fact that there is no saving the fetus - it's fate determined, it will self-abort. But you would rather risk leaving your 6 children orphans.

I believe you that you would do as you promised (attempt to die just not to have an abortion). I just can't accept that it would be an intelligent decision.

I'm with Lisa, and I hope she posts more ultrasounds. I'm the mom of 6. I had to bury one soon after birth. I could never kill my child in the wonb. To me, it's no different than killing them out of the womb. Pain or no pain, murder is murder; neither timing, law, or semantics change anything about that at all.

[sachinky 465]

Fairly heartbreaking to see mom's who are crying at the bedside, hoping and praying that their little one makes it through, and then to hear of others aborting their kids when they have a chance to make it to the other side at that age.

I don't know why, but to me, this honestly sounds like the baby-equivalent of "Eat your broccoli. There are kids starving in India."

Just because there may be moms who are praying and hoping that their kid makes it through the night is not enough of an obligation for me to churn out a kid if I don't want it or am not ready for it.

[Justine+David 218]

I didn't mean that all women need to consider the feelings of other women who have kids at that age, but rather point out the dichotomy of the situation.

Why is it that we allow abortion for kids that could survive outside the womb? At what point does a fetus become a human and where do their rights begin? Would all the people who are for abortion think anything different of a 38 weeker if the mom decided that she wanted an abortion at that time?

I think it's fairly selfish of a woman to have an abortion at that stage when she could give birth and give it up for adoption. I know not everyone would agree, but at that point in viability, it seems rather cruel to the child. Especially in this country (USA) where there are many, many resources available to pregnant women free of charge.

Now, I wouldn't ever advocate for a mother to give up her life for the child. That's pretty silly, IMO.