Administration Making Sure Gay Families Can Suck Up Tax Dollars Too! Huzzah....

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Workers shouldn't be granted any provisions to help them when things go wrong. Kids sick? Too bad, take time off without pay or send someone else to look after them! Seriously, why should employees expect their employer to take any of life's difficulties into consideration? Business is business and trumps human activity. The workers are there to work, period and they should be grateful employers pay them for any vacation time at all, let alone sick leave, or personal days. Profit drives everything

I've said it before but I think the US can be a brutal place if unfortunate circumstances befall you. This has just reminded me of a conversation I had with my FIL (he's a partner at an architectural firm) back at the start of the year - like a lot of other employees in CA he's had to take reduced pay in order to keep his job (work 5 days a week, get paid for 4), but he'd just found out that his paid time off was being reduced from 16 days a year to just 11.

The kicker was that he was a few months away from his 5th year anniversary at the company (he'd been laid off from his last place before that) which would mean his PTO would have gone up from 16 days to 21 a year. So in essence now he's down to 11 and when he reaches his anniversary he'd be back up to 16, where he was before.

My FIL has a heart condition - and so most of his PTO for the year was taken up by visits to the doctor and to the hospital. As it turned out - before I moved out he'd had a few episodes and ended up at emergency care that put him out of commission for a week. So by March he'd essentially used up all his PTO for the year and ended up having to take unpaid leave in order to have a surgical procedure to alleviate the problem.

[Gemmie 142]

I can see both sides of the argument but at the moment I lean towards Happy Bunny's logic.

I too have worked in jobs where I wasn't given as much time off as people with children, and also had to come in on days off because children were sick. I have to say, as much as I can understand that sick children need looking after, from a business point of view, it's unfair. Building on what HP was saying, I have family too and personal circumstances just like everyone. During my employment at one place, we had a recent bereavement in the family and all I wanted to do quite frankly was be around my father. I've also been let go from a job because I wanted to spend Christmas with my fiancee in the States and they didn't like it - yet (this is simply a guess) I imagine that people wanting to take the time off and spend it with their children would be allowed.

My husband works with one other person in his office who is a single mother and is always picking up the slack for her when her son is sick or school is cancelled, or sometimes even has to bring him into the office where he interferes with work efficiency. We were supposed to be going to Florida this year but he didn't want to leave her alone with the workload seeing as she frequently has to take care of her kid; and then we found out that she was taking her son to DisneyLand and my husband had to run the office without her. My MIL's father has advancing Alzheimers and needs 24 hour care. She can't just get more privileges due to that. She pays $8000 a month for someone to take care of him so she can work.

Even though I can understand that looking after children, especially if you're a single parent, is difficult when you're trying to hold down a job.... it still comes under the umbrella of 'personal circumstances'. Which everyone has.

[Peikko 1,575]

From a business point of view it's 'unfair' to label any day of the week as different to any other day of the week - and yet society expects that such a thing as a weekend is given special status, as are national holidays. If you are expected to work any of these 'special' days, business has to compensate for that. Do you honestly believe that family life should have absolutely no reflection in the way business is run?

Personally, as I said, I think more circumstances should be taken into consideration, in particular those who have to care for elderly relatives and those who are disabled at whatever age - but obviously this has to be sensibly administrated and should be only used in emergency/unforeseen circumstances, not as some kind of an excuse to not do one's job properly, and that is what the legislation and those businesses that give consideration to 'personal circumstances' seek to address. Bereavement of a close relative is traditionally considered one of those emergencies where time off is a given in Europe, so I have no idea what kind of company you have worked for that ignored such a request for time off, that's outrageous.

Edited June 24, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Peikko 1,575]

I've said it before but I think the US can be a brutal place if unfortunate circumstances befall you. This has just reminded me of a conversation I had with my FIL (he's a partner at an architectural firm) back at the start of the year - like a lot of other employees in CA he's had to take reduced pay in order to keep his job (work 5 days a week, get paid for 4), but he'd just found out that his paid time off was being reduced from 16 days a year to just 11.

The kicker was that he was a few months away from his 5th year anniversary at the company (he'd been laid off from his last place before that) which would mean his PTO would have gone up from 16 days to 21 a year. So in essence now he's down to 11 and when he reaches his anniversary he'd be back up to 16, where he was before.

My FIL has a heart condition - and so most of his PTO for the year was taken up by visits to the doctor and to the hospital. As it turned out - before I moved out he'd had a few episodes and ended up at emergency care that put him out of commission for a week. So by March he'd essentially used up all his PTO for the year and ended up having to take unpaid leave in order to have a surgical procedure to alleviate the problem.

Clearly he was not paying attention - he probably ate burgers all day and didn't bother to exercise so his health problems are his fault and he must suck it up.

[Gemmie 142]

From a business point of view it's 'unfair' to label any day of the week as different to any other day of the week - and yet society expects that such a thing as a weekend is given special status, as are national holidays. If you are expected to work any of these 'special' days, business has to compensate for that. Do you honestly believe that family life should have absolutely no reflection in the way business is run?

Personally, as I said, I think more circumstances should be taken into consideration, in particular those who have to care for elderly relatives and those who are disabled at whatever age - but obviously this has to be sensibly administrated and should be only used in emergency/unforeseen circumstances, not as some kind of an excuse to not do one's job properly, and that is what the legislation and those businesses that give consideration to 'personal circumstances' seek to address. Bereavement of a close relative is traditionally considered one of those emergencies where time off is a given in Europe, so I have no idea what kind of company you have worked for that ignored such a request for time off, that's outrageous.

I see what you're saying, and I do think that family life should play a role to a certain extent. What I don't like is that 'family life' seems to be attributed to just children. That could be simply because they're so dependent and can't take care of themselves, but I never hear of people needing extras for elderly or disabled relatives. Some people think of pets as part of the family, but I would never hear of someone needing emergency time off to take their dog to the vet.

I should've clarified, it was quite some time after the bereavement (and also only a part-time job). I didn't even expect time off for that one. It was just an example of how if you start giving people benefits such as extra time off for children, then you're one step away from others wanting extra for their personal circumstances too. And I guess when you want to administer this reasonably, that's when problems come up. Especially in America where people tend to be sue-happy.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Clearly he was not paying attention - he probably ate burgers all day and didn't bother to exercise so his health problems are his fault and he must suck it up.

Well he has a pretty good way of dealing with these problems as though they don't really bother him - at least it appears that way to people who don't know him. His problem wasn't lifestyle related - it was congenital arrythmia, to do with the electrical impulses regulating his heartbeat.

He's a conservative, but he's very much in favour of nationalised healthcare (all of the family is) - as he's had direct experience of being on the rough end of the current system - finding himself laid off in his mid-late 50's and being pre-existing conditioned by his new employer's health insurance plan. They haven't been able to take a full family vacation in at least 20 years - because his PTO is always used up by his heart episodes.

I see what you're saying, and I do think that family life should play a role to a certain extent. What I don't like is that 'family life' seems to be attributed to just children. That could be simply because they're so dependent and can't take care of themselves, but I never hear of people needing extras for elderly or disabled relatives. Some people think of pets as part of the family, but I would never hear of someone needing emergency time off to take their dog to the vet.

I should've clarified, it was quite some time after the bereavement (and also only a part-time job). I didn't even expect time off for that one. It was just an example of how if you start giving people benefits such as extra time off for children, then you're one step away from others wanting extra for their personal circumstances too. And I guess when you want to administer this reasonably, that's when problems come up. Especially in America where people tend to be sue-happy.

Well you can hear about it from me - I had that exact experience with one of my cats last year.