Why are we turning our kids into sissies?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I was going off on a tangent with Robert. I asked him in terms of real world skills, what is more important for a child to learn - to be competitive or to be cooperative?

Lisa, I stated earlier that giving ribbons or saying that everyone gets some award is stupid. But I'm proud to say that my children are more adept at being cooperative than they are at winning a race. I'm not saying competition is bad. It's a matter of emphasis. There's plenty of ways to teach children real world skills that aren't necessarily centered around competition.

Why are you choosing the emphasis more on cooperation? Why is it one or the other...or one over the other...you can teach 'cooperation' at the same time teaching them to be competitive. Don't get me wrong...cooperation is lovely...I have many people at my office who are just a peach to be around. They'll help you make your copies, do this, do that....and I am nice and polite...even funny...and everyone just loves me...we have a cutesy lil talk then *i* go out and get the listing...cos they're too busy bein 'cooperative' to the office (of independant contractors, btw)

Am I rude to anyone? No Am I pleasant? Sure Do I pride myself on bein part of some getalong gang? No way!!! Business is business...survival of the fittest...

You might be sending your kids to battle with a slingshot!

Take an NBA team as an example and you're the coach. You want your players to play hard and win, but if they aren't cooperating with each other, the team falls apart. The most successful teams are the ones that understand cooperation. With the NBA, many times the star players will have a bad night and it requires other players to pick up the slack. You can't expect everyone to play their best every night - it's not realistic.

[PlatyPius 5]

I was going off on a tangent with Robert. I asked him in terms of real world skills, what is more important for a child to learn - to be competitive or to be cooperative?

Lisa, I stated earlier that giving ribbons or saying that everyone gets some award is stupid. But I'm proud to say that my children are more adept at being cooperative than they are at winning a race. I'm not saying competition is bad. It's a matter of emphasis. There's plenty of ways to teach children real world skills that aren't necessarily centered around competition.

Why are you choosing the emphasis more on cooperation? Why is it one or the other...or one over the other...you can teach 'cooperation' at the same time teaching them to be competitive. Don't get me wrong...cooperation is lovely...I have many people at my office who are just a peach to be around. They'll help you make your copies, do this, do that....and I am nice and polite...even funny...and everyone just loves me...we have a cutesy lil talk then *i* go out and get the listing...cos they're too busy bein 'cooperative' to the office (of independant contractors, btw)

Am I rude to anyone? No Am I pleasant? Sure Do I pride myself on bein part of some getalong gang? No way!!! Business is business...survival of the fittest...

You might be sending your kids to battle with a slingshot!

Take an NBA team as an example and you're the coach. You want your players to play hard and win, but if they aren't cooperating with each other, the team falls apart. The most successful teams are the ones that understand cooperation. With the NBA, many times the star players will have a bad night and it requires other players to pick up the slack. You can't expect everyone to play their best every night - it's not realistic.

However, if half the team is younger and from an area where "everyone wins" is taught, the team will still suck no matter what. After all, it isn't about winning....you get paid and win awards just for showing up.

[Fandango 1,439]

I was going off on a tangent with Robert. I asked him in terms of real world skills, what is more important for a child to learn - to be competitive or to be cooperative?

Lisa, I stated earlier that giving ribbons or saying that everyone gets some award is stupid. But I'm proud to say that my children are more adept at being cooperative than they are at winning a race. I'm not saying competition is bad. It's a matter of emphasis. There's plenty of ways to teach children real world skills that aren't necessarily centered around competition.

Why are you choosing the emphasis more on cooperation? Why is it one or the other...or one over the other...you can teach 'cooperation' at the same time teaching them to be competitive. Don't get me wrong...cooperation is lovely...I have many people at my office who are just a peach to be around. They'll help you make your copies, do this, do that....and I am nice and polite...even funny...and everyone just loves me...we have a cutesy lil talk then *i* go out and get the listing...cos they're too busy bein 'cooperative' to the office (of independant contractors, btw)

Am I rude to anyone? No Am I pleasant? Sure Do I pride myself on bein part of some getalong gang? No way!!! Business is business...survival of the fittest...

You might be sending your kids to battle with a slingshot!

Take an NBA team as an example and you're the coach. You want your players to play hard and win, but if they aren't cooperating with each other, the team falls apart. The most successful teams are the ones that understand cooperation. With the NBA, many times the star players will have a bad night and it requires other players to pick up the slack. You can't expect everyone to play their best every night - it's not realistic.

However, if half the team is younger and from an area where "everyone wins" is taught, the team will still suck no matter what. After all, it isn't about winning....you get paid and win awards just for showing up.

Yep!!!

Meanwhile, each individual player is vying for MVP or whatever it is in BB....and each one's salary depends on his/her singular performance.

[I'm Gone 60]

Because it's polite?

That's f*cking BS. Not giving a kid a card is not being rude. Why should a kid be made to give the appearance that they like everyone if they don't.

I take it you don't have a job that requires much interpersonal relating.

If you mean one that I have to kiss people's *ss and act that I like people I don't, then I don't have one. I know my job and do my job, but I not going to get voted Ms. Congeniality. LOL

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I was going off on a tangent with Robert. I asked him in terms of real world skills, what is more important for a child to learn - to be competitive or to be cooperative?

Lisa, I stated earlier that giving ribbons or saying that everyone gets some award is stupid. But I'm proud to say that my children are more adept at being cooperative than they are at winning a race. I'm not saying competition is bad. It's a matter of emphasis. There's plenty of ways to teach children real world skills that aren't necessarily centered around competition.

Why are you choosing the emphasis more on cooperation? Why is it one or the other...or one over the other...you can teach 'cooperation' at the same time teaching them to be competitive. Don't get me wrong...cooperation is lovely...I have many people at my office who are just a peach to be around. They'll help you make your copies, do this, do that....and I am nice and polite...even funny...and everyone just loves me...we have a cutesy lil talk then *i* go out and get the listing...cos they're too busy bein 'cooperative' to the office (of independant contractors, btw)

Am I rude to anyone? No Am I pleasant? Sure Do I pride myself on bein part of some getalong gang? No way!!! Business is business...survival of the fittest...

You might be sending your kids to battle with a slingshot!

Take an NBA team as an example and you're the coach. You want your players to play hard and win, but if they aren't cooperating with each other, the team falls apart. The most successful teams are the ones that understand cooperation. With the NBA, many times the star players will have a bad night and it requires other players to pick up the slack. You can't expect everyone to play their best every night - it's not realistic.

However, if half the team is younger and from an area where "everyone wins" is taught, the team will still suck no matter what. After all, it isn't about winning....you get paid and win awards just for showing up.

It's pretty hard to make it in the NBA. You actually have to have talent and play hard.

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

The alpha male won't kill the other males as he needs them to help with hunting. My point is that humans, like other social animals rely on each other for survival, which contradicts Robert view that competition teaches kids to not rely on anyone but themselves. I think that's a fallacy.

wrong............

[I'm Gone 60]

My feelings about this are probably easy to guess....

Yes, we're raising a bunch of spineless wussies who feel like everything they do should be congratulated.

Like having a graduation ceremony for kids going from 5th to 6th grade. You didn't freaking graduate from anything, your leaving elementary school and going to middle school. You still have 7 more years of school before you graduate from anything.

[Fandango 1,439]

Aww Steven, don't cry...we don't think you're wrong...just, erm ...factually challenged

Edited August 10, 2006 by LisaD

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Aww Steven, don't cry...we don't think you're wrong...just, erm ...factually challenged

Gwiv me a dam wibbon or I wul cwy weel woud!

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

Aww Steven, don't cry...we don't think you're wrong...just, erm ...factually challenged

here's the part on wolves....not killing each other within the pack, as you stated......

link 1

Loss of rank can happen gradually or suddenly. An older wolf may simply choose to give way when an ambitious challenger presents itself, and rank will shift without bloodshed. On the other hand, the older animal may choose to fight back, with varying degrees of intensity. While an extremely high percentage of wolf aggression is non-damaging and ritualized, a high-stakes fight can result in injury. The loser of such a damaging fight is frequently chased away from the pack or, rarely, may be killed as other aggressively aroused wolves attempt to join in. This kind of dominance fight is more common in the winter months, when mating occurs.

link 2

The adult parents are usually unrelated, if not always. Wolves compete for rank within the pack, for mates and, in times of scarcity, any necessary resource such as food. Wolves who lose such a "fight"can be driven out of the pack or even killed. This is one of the reasons for the "lone wolf".

link 3

When an Alpha male or female is becoming old and decrepit, a younger, stronger animal, usually one of the beta pair, challenges the dominant animal. The loser of the fight is frequently chased away from the pack, or killed if it can not escape fast enough when the rest of the wolves turn on it.

one of the many benefits to having a wolf hybrid....you learn things like this

[Fandango 1,439]

hence the phrase 'turn on you like a pack of wolves...'

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Aww Steven, don't cry...we don't think you're wrong...just, erm ...factually challenged

here's the part on wolves....not killing each other within the pack, as you stated......

link 1

Loss of rank can happen gradually or suddenly. An older wolf may simply choose to give way when an ambitious challenger presents itself, and rank will shift without bloodshed. On the other hand, the older animal may choose to fight back, with varying degrees of intensity. While an extremely high percentage of wolf aggression is non-damaging and ritualized, a high-stakes fight can result in injury. The loser of such a damaging fight is frequently chased away from the pack or, rarely, may be killed as other aggressively aroused wolves attempt to join in. This kind of dominance fight is more common in the winter months, when mating occurs.

link 2

The adult parents are usually unrelated, if not always. Wolves compete for rank within the pack, for mates and, in times of scarcity, any necessary resource such as food. Wolves who lose such a "fight"can be driven out of the pack or even killed. This is one of the reasons for the "lone wolf".

link 3

When an Alpha male or female is becoming old and decrepit, a younger, stronger animal, usually one of the beta pair, challenges the dominant animal. The loser of the fight is frequently chased away from the pack, or killed if it can not escape fast enough when the rest of the wolves turn on it.

one of the many benefits to having a wolf hybrid....you learn things like this

Charles, they hunt in packs, yes? Meaning, they do rely on each other for survival - they live in groups. I brought them up because of Robert's claim that "cooperation is for people who can't do it on their own."

[Ban Hammer 13,337]

The alpha male won't kill the other males as he needs them to help with hunting. My point is that humans, like other social animals rely on each other for survival, which contradicts Robert view that competition teaches kids to not rely on anyone but themselves. I think that's a fallacy.

wrong............

Charles, they hunt in packs, yes? Meaning, they do rely on each other for survival - they live in groups. I brought them up because of Robert's claim that "cooperation is for people who can't do it on their own."

you can make that statement if you wish, but your original statement above The alpha male won't kill the other males as he needs them to help with hunting was disproved.

if you need more wolf facts, just ask

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The alpha male won't kill the other males as he needs them to help with hunting. My point is that humans, like other social animals rely on each other for survival, which contradicts Robert view that competition teaches kids to not rely on anyone but themselves. I think that's a fallacy.

wrong............

Charles, they hunt in packs, yes? Meaning, they do rely on each other for survival - they live in groups. I brought them up because of Robert's claim that "cooperation is for people who can't do it on their own."

you can make that statement if you wish, but your original statement above The alpha male won't kill the other males as he needs them to help with hunting was disproved.

if you need more wolf facts, just ask

You know what I meant - or at least I hope you did.

[Fandango 1,439]

I love when Steven does that backtracking moonwalk dance