Why are we turning our kids into sissies?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

As for sports, the idea of "it's not whether you win or loose, it's how you play the game". Sorry, that's just NOT reality!!! In a perfect world, maybe. There is nothing wrong with winning, and if people are okay with loosing, then go join Bart Simpson's underacheiver club! Competition is what separates the wheat from the chaff.

In terms of real world skills - which is more important for your child, that they be competitive or cooperative?

Competitive, all the way.

Everyone in my family is that way, and every one of them has a very fulfilling and rewarding life to show for it. Cooperation is for people who can't do it on their own.

Compete for sports, for music, and for grades in school. Then compete for jobs and for promotions. Competition is a part of life, if that person has any ambition at all.

Survival of the fittest!

Oh Robert...sigh. We're social beings and in the animal kingdom social animals depend on each other for survival. That requires cooperation. For example, in a pack of wolves, if only the strongest and most agressive get to feed, the weaker would not survive.

We're not sharks.

[Fandango 1,440]

For example, in a pack of wolves, if only the strongest and most agressive get to feed, the weaker would not survive.

We're not sharks.

And we're not wolves either....

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For example, in a pack of wolves, if only the strongest and most agressive get to feed, the weaker would not survive.

We're not sharks.

And we're not wolves either....

Somebody give that girl a lollipop! You're right! But like wolves, humans are social animals.

[onwa 6]

Kids need to be taught kindness and to excel. Geez. Its quite possible to teach kids to be a member of a team and society and how to compete and excel. We can have both.

[Alex+R 0]

My feelings about this are probably easy to guess....

Yes, we're raising a bunch of spineless wussies who feel like everything they do should be congratulated.

Everyone gets a trophy just for playing....the same trophy....so where's the incentive to excel? If the reward is the same, no matter your effort or skill, why bother? If you knew that you and Bob would get the same raise, no matter what, and Bob was a lazy slob who barely did his job, why would you try to do your job well? If kids are all "rewarded" the same in sports, then what incentive is there for a kid to practice and become exceptional early on - when it's most important for future success?

I would think it would be much better for little Johnny to learn early on that maybe he isn't cut out to be a star pitcher for the White Sox so that he can focus his attentions elsewhere.

Welcome to the Wussified States of America.

What I was trying to say before was that I really don't see this as being that big of a deal. As in my case, usually those made to feel better in their mediocrity/failures end up ACTUALLY humiliated. It's a special form of PC punishment for failure. That's why I don't see this as a reason society may/may not be churning out wussies.

I believe this is an attempt at making a gentler playground but any kid with half a brain knows what's going on by the age of 8. And before that, it is normal and developmentally important for kids to think they are the best at everything. Even when they're last. It's part of ego development and always has been, regardless of what positive or negative reinforcement the outside world gives them.

[PlatyPius 5]

For example, in a pack of wolves, if only the strongest and most agressive get to feed, the weaker would not survive.

We're not sharks.

And we're not wolves either....

Somebody give that girl a lollipop! You're right! But like wolves, humans are social animals.

Funny analogy....

In a wolf pack, there is an alpha male and an alpha female. The "lesser wolves" submit to the leader by rolling on their backs and exposing their throats. If a wolf is lazy and doesn't do it's part for the pack, it is "shunned". So.....thanks for providing the analogy for MY side of this discussion.

[Fandango 1,440]

For example, in a pack of wolves, if only the strongest and most agressive get to feed, the weaker would not survive.

We're not sharks.

And we're not wolves either....

Somebody give that girl a lollipop! You're right! But like wolves, humans are social animals.

But you can talk all this feelgood verbage and 'out in the wild' yadda yadda stuff all you want...YOU brought it up. YES we're social animals...what's that gotta do with the price of coffee??? No one's saying he/she is promoting a life of isolation for children to grown up in. NO it' doesn't take a flippin village to raise a kid...and kids should be able to give out their valentine's cards to whomever they damn well choose.

Should there be awards for last place? Only if it's a 'hey you're a loser' award I jest....seriously NO NO NO.. As I said, this is not a communist country. You want to be a success? There has to be a drive for it! Hell, while we're giving all these sports players the same trophies...I say we throw out the academic grading system altogether because it creates a hostile environment of intellectual heirarchy.

See how ridiculous this sounds?

For example, in a pack of wolves, if only the strongest and most agressive get to feed, the weaker would not survive.

We're not sharks.

And we're not wolves either....

Somebody give that girl a lollipop! You're right! But like wolves, humans are social animals.

Funny analogy....

In a wolf pack, there is an alpha male and an alpha female. The "lesser wolves" submit to the leader by rolling on their backs and exposing their throats. If a wolf is lazy and doesn't do it's part for the pack, it is "shunned". So.....thanks for providing the analogy for MY side of this discussion.

I need an I Cian shirt!

[ChristinaM 0]

I don't think they are, or need to be.

I also think this idea that the world is a meritocracy where "the best" always get rewarded/promoted/recognized is equally as naive as giving a kid a trophy for last place. The best people doesn't always get the job, and the person who works the hardest and produces the best results doesn't always get promoted -- especially if the person doing the promoting thinks he/she is a dickhead.

One of the main reasons people are seen as a dickhead is arrogance. That arrogance often comes from feeling an entitlement to something.

No system is perfect, and the USA is not a perfect meritocracy. But it's certainly a long way from "everything being for the common good". Capitalism by it's very nature is competitive; not just competitive, but cut-throat! We have to prepare kids for that, for the way that society around them functions.

Aspiring to be the best means that there will be someone below you, and that person will, by default, have lost. We may not always get to the top, but there are very few people out there who do not have a single competitive bone in their body.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For example, in a pack of wolves, if only the strongest and most agressive get to feed, the weaker would not survive.

We're not sharks.

And we're not wolves either....

Somebody give that girl a lollipop! You're right! But like wolves, humans are social animals.

But you can talk all this feelgood verbage and 'out in the wild' yadda yadda stuff all you want...YOU brought it up. YES we're social animals...what's that gotta do with the price of coffee??? No one's saying he/she is promoting a life of isolation for children to grown up in. NO it' doesn't take a flippin village to raise a kid...and kids should be able to give out their valentine's cards to whomever they damn well choose.

Should there be awards for last place? Only if it's a 'hey you're a loser' award I jest....seriously NO NO NO.. As I said, this is not a communist country. You want to be a success? There has to be a drive for it! Hell, while we're giving all these sports players the same trophies...I say we throw out the academic grading system altogether because it creates a hostile environment of intellectual heirarchy.

See how ridiculous this sounds?

I was going off on a tangent with Robert. I asked him in terms of real world skills, what is more important for a child to learn - to be competitive or to be cooperative?

Lisa, I stated earlier that giving ribbons or saying that everyone gets some award is stupid. But I'm proud to say that my children are more adept at being cooperative than they are at winning a race. I'm not saying competition is bad. It's a matter of emphasis. There's plenty of ways to teach children real world skills that aren't necessarily centered around competition.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

There is plenty of competition in the real world. Even within teams in which members are supposed to cooperate with each other. Come to think of it, especially in teams.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For example, in a pack of wolves, if only the strongest and most agressive get to feed, the weaker would not survive.

We're not sharks.

And we're not wolves either....

Somebody give that girl a lollipop! You're right! But like wolves, humans are social animals.

Funny analogy....

In a wolf pack, there is an alpha male and an alpha female. The "lesser wolves" submit to the leader by rolling on their backs and exposing their throats. If a wolf is lazy and doesn't do it's part for the pack, it is "shunned". So.....thanks for providing the analogy for MY side of this discussion.

The alpha male won't kill the other males as he needs them to help with hunting. My point is that humans, like other social animals rely on each other for survival, which contradicts Robert view that competition teaches kids to not rely on anyone but themselves. I think that's a fallacy.

[PlatyPius 5]

I need an I Cian shirt!

Don't have I Cian t-shirts, sorry. I have the Fan Club (lol) T-shirt, I Cian camisoles, and an I Cian teddy bear. There are bumper stickers too. My self-promotion knows no bounds..... (I'm not really an ego-maniac....I started the store as a joke.)

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

they also might be seen as a dickhead because they are uncooperative and don't work towards the greater good of an organisation, which isn't always down to what's best for one person.

or maybe it's just personal because the promoter didn't get invited to the potential promotee's birthday party

[Fandango 1,440]

I was going off on a tangent with Robert. I asked him in terms of real world skills, what is more important for a child to learn - to be competitive or to be cooperative?

Lisa, I stated earlier that giving ribbons or saying that everyone gets some award is stupid. But I'm proud to say that my children are more adept at being cooperative than they are at winning a race. I'm not saying competition is bad. It's a matter of emphasis. There's plenty of ways to teach children real world skills that aren't necessarily centered around competition.

Why are you choosing the emphasis more on cooperation? Why is it one or the other...or one over the other...you can teach 'cooperation' at the same time teaching them to be competitive. Don't get me wrong...cooperation is lovely...I have many people at my office who are just a peach to be around. They'll help you make your copies, do this, do that....and I am nice and polite...even funny...and everyone just loves me...we have a cutesy lil talk then *i* go out and get the listing...cos they're too busy bein 'cooperative' to the office (of independant contractors, btw)

Am I rude to anyone? No Am I pleasant? Sure Do I pride myself on bein part of some getalong gang? No way!!! Business is business...survival of the fittest...

You might be sending your kids to battle with a slingshot!

[Fandango 1,440]

I'm going to tell you one more story....

We have a floor shift at work on Sunday from 10-4. Two people work it and usually they are the ONLY people in the office. Anyways, I get a call like at 1130-12 saying no one's showed up..could I come in? So yeah I went in.

Anyways, they got ahold of one of the agents...she 'forgot' (hello, is this highschool?). So she came in too. We're sittin at the front setting up & she checks the voicemail...obviously there were a few calls from our Broker..and our broker was nonnnnne tooo happy.

Well I dunno what the vm said (tho my boss is not cruel or emotional..it's just business)...anyways this colleague of mine hangs up the phone & says to me 'omG So and so is sooooooo pissed off and she wants a call back' Then the agent started freaking out....justifying her fluck up, etc...'it wasn't my fault' 'if she is mean to me I'll quit' 'I don't need to be berated...it's not that big a deal' She even excused herself and went for a moment.

I'm sittin there hella-amused sayin nowt. She never called our boss back, btw.

Does this sound like a person who was raised to deal with consequences?

Edited August 10, 2006 by LisaD