New Arizona bill would deny citizenship to children of illegal immigrants

[Advanced Aardvark 82]

Birth certificates are a state function that the Federal Government has nothing to do with. Technically a state can deny issuing a certificate to whomever they want...

True, but granting citizenship is a function of the Federal Government. If enacted, all this law will accomplish is to have the Federal government create a new "national birth certificate". Since this would be a federal document, states would be required to accept it. Really, how hard do you think it would be to issue an Executive Order, directing the Census Bureau, to create and issue National Birth Certificates? A hospital bill, stating that the child was born in the US would be adequate proof.

The sentiment behind the AZ bill is correct; however, the implementation is flawed. This will likely result in more Federal intrusion into the affairs of States, as the Federal government asserts its constitutional authority with respect to the granting of citizenship.

[mawilson 2,133]

True, but granting citizenship is a function of the Federal Government. If enacted, all this law will accomplish is to have the Federal government create a new "national birth certificate". Since this would be a federal document, states would be required to accept it. Really, how hard do you think it would be to issue an Executive Order, directing the Census Bureau, to create and issue National Birth Certificates? A hospital bill, stating that the child was born in the US would be adequate proof.

The sentiment behind the AZ bill is correct; however, the implementation is flawed. This will likely result in more Federal intrusion into the affairs of States, as the Federal government asserts its constitutional authority with respect to the granting of citizenship.

I have to agree.

[Heracles 417]

I would be interesting to see how many people actually still support the status-quo automatic citizenship, regardless of whether a parent is a citizen or not.

[mawilson 2,133]

I would be interesting to see how many people actually still support the status-quo automatic citizenship, regardless of whether a parent is a citizen or not.

I support it, even though I'm anti illegal immigration.

[Heracles 417]

I support it, even though I'm anti illegal immigration.

So you support the 300,000 babies born per annum whose parents basically jumped a border or overstayed? Furthermore, there is a very good chance had their baby delivered at your expense, since they probably have no insurance. Also actually qualifies to run for president while you - a naturalized citizen - does not.

[Niels Bohr 72]

There's so many flaws.

The baby will grow up and feed the government. Consider giving birth an initial fee to invest to give way for more money from the kid when he gets a job.

[mawilson 2,133]

So you support the 300,000 babies born per annum whose parents basically jumped a border or overstayed? Furthermore, there is a very good chance had their baby delivered at your expense, since they probably have no insurance. Also actually qualifies to run for president while you - a naturalized citizen - does not.

Yes, I do. Keep the babies, throw the parents out.

[Ban Hammer 13,343]

Yes, I do. Keep the babies, throw the parents out.

i thought you hated babies.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It is not a law yet. It has not even been submitted as a bill. One Arizona lawmaker is seeking his fifteen minutes of fame, by offering this "concept" of his. If it came from the White House, it would be called a "trial balloon".

[Sofiyya 1,687]

When I was in undergrad school, I worked with a naturalized citizen from Taiwan who brought her relatives and friends into the US on tourist visas to have their babies so they would be US citizens. Ironically, my own father was an anchor baby, yet, I still think it's ridiculous that a tourist's baby can tie a family to this country merely through it's birth here.

[mendeleev 68]

Birth certificates are a state function that the Federal Government has nothing to do with. Technically a state can deny issuing a certificate to whomever they want...

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

(In case you don't recognize the language, which most of us birthright citizens learned in high school, provided we were paying attention, it is the First Section of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.)

Those words are pretty clear. If a State were to decide to deny birth certificates to a class of individuals born in the United States who are by definition citizens, then it is pretty clear that State would be on shaky legal ground. (Now, if that State wants to make sure that attorney's make money off of their stupidity, that may be possible for them but that would be weird public policy. Attorney's have plenty of other opportunities to make a living.)

A person who is born here is born here -- that fact is simple and clear, and it is the 14th Amendment, not merely US law, that defines that person as a US citizen. Next, the language "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens ..." is also pretty clear language.

Looks like the loonies in Arizona have pretty basic reading comprehension difficulties! Makes sense, given the sorry nature of their educational system.

Edited June 16, 2010 by novotul

[trillium13 84]

I would be interesting to see how many people actually still support the status-quo automatic citizenship, regardless of whether a parent is a citizen or not.

Make a poll.

I vote no for auto-citizenship.

[SMOKE 1,426]

n/m

Edited June 16, 2010 by SMOKE

[Dan J 277]

States grant a birth certificate as proof of where a person was born. The federal government grants citizenship to any person born in the US. How would Arizona not granting a birth certificate prevent the child from gaining citizenship?

Now a birth certificate is often used as proof in obtaining a passport or proving that you are indeed a citizen, but its not the only means. Unless the 14th amendment is repealed, birth certificate or not, these children are still citizens. If anything what will result is that the federal government will provide alternate means of documentation.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

(In case you don't recognize the language, which most of us birthright citizens learned in high school, provided we were paying attention, it is the First Section of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America.)

Those words are pretty clear. If a State were to decide to deny birth certificates to a class of individuals born in the United States who are by definition citizens, then it is pretty clear that State would be on shaky legal ground. (Now, if that State wants to make sure that attorney's make money off of their stupidity, that may be possible for them but that would be weird public policy. Attorney's have plenty of other opportunities to make a living.)

A person who is born here is born here -- that fact is simple and clear, and it is the 14th Amendment, not merely US law, that defines that person as a US citizen. Next, the language "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens ..." is also pretty clear language.

Looks like the loonies in Arizona have pretty basic reading comprehension difficulties! Makes sense, given the sorry nature of their educational system.

I would suggest you go and educate yourself on the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution before coming in here and spouting that off.

Granted, as you pointed out everyone should have learned that in high school. The thing they don't teach you in high school, is it's not the "words" that matter, it's the intention behind those words. Others have already posted in this thread the intent of the Fourteenth Amendment, so you can feel free to go back and read and understand how in no way, shape, or form do foreign nationals be them legal or illegal have the right to have their children to become US Citizens unless one of the parents it a citizen.

On the first part of your post regarding birth certificates, the United States does not have federal birth certificates. Each and every state issues a certificate the way it deems fit to do so. The United States does "rely" on those certificates to determine if someone was born within the borders of this nation and are indeed a citizen, but there are no federal laws/mandates, etc. that determine who is or is not issues a certificate of live birth.