J1 craziness?!?

[Killmon 0]

My wife is here on a J1, is married to me (a natural}, and just had our first child. I am being told be multiple sources that it is unlikely that a wavier will be granted... Really?! I am to sent my 4 month old citizen to a foreign country {Spain} who the hell forces a child out of the country?

[sachinky 464]

Is she subject to the 2 year home residency rule?

I believe there is a waiver for that.

Who are these 'multiple sources'?

[Penguin_ie 5,992]

If you are refering to the 2 year home stay requirement for the J1 (as opposed to waivers for missrepresentation, illegal presence etc), waivers are granted for this quite often, though are certainly not automatic.

On your second point- the child is not being forced out of the country, he is free to stay with you in the USA should the waiver not be granted.

[Killmon 0]

If you are refering to the 2 year home stay requirement for the J1 (as opposed to waivers for missrepresentation, illegal presence etc), waivers are granted for this quite often, though are certainly not automatic.

On your second point- the child is not being forced out of the country, he is free to stay with you in the USA should the waiver not be granted.

Well, First off that is a extremely heartless position to take and I hope you never have to learn it the hard way and be a mom away from her baby -incredible that you would say such a clearly ignorant thing. You might not think a 4 month old baby needs its mother to eat, as it is not able to eat solid foods yet. But I, and the rest of the world know that a baby needs its mother to give it the greatest chance of being healthy -period. To put at risk, or otherwise force a US citizen out by default is barbaric.

Formulas are not kosher and are filled with toxins and lack more than 300 of the nutrients found in breast milk, which may very well be responsible for increased health issues such as autism...

That aside, my multiple sources are pro bono immigration lawyers, I actually had one say, "It would have been easier if she had killed someone".

If you are refering to the 2 year home stay requirement for the J1 (as opposed to waivers for missrepresentation, illegal presence etc), waivers are granted for this quite often, though are certainly not automatic.

On your second point- the child is not being forced out of the country, he is free to stay with you in the USA should the waiver not be granted.

That aside, my multiple sources are pro bono immigration lawyers, I actually had one say, "It would have been easier if she had killed someone".

She is a teacher. We came over on the J1 with her, as we did not intend on staying. But, with the new child, we need to stay for a least another two years... so really, as long as the process takes that much time, I suppose it will not matter if they say, "No". I do hate paying for something that is not guaranteed...

It is promising that they are awarded more than I have been told, you are the first to say such a thing to me.

[Killmon 0]

Is she subject to the 2 year home residency rule?

I believe there is a waiver for that.

Who are these 'multiple sources'?

Yes she is subject to the 2yr. I am starting the wavier process now. She is a teacher. We came over on the J1 with her, as we did not intend on staying. But, with the new child, we need to stay for a least another two years... so really, as long as the process takes that much time, I suppose it will not matter if they say, "No". I do hate paying for something that is not guaranteed...

It is promising that they are awarded more than I have been told, you are the first to say such a thing to me.

[sachinky 464]

The child is a US citizen and is not 'being forced' to go anywhere.

Should the waiver not be granted, he can stay with you or leave with his mother.

You can leave with your wife and child should you not wish to be separated from them, either.

Nobody is forcing anyone to leave, except your wife, who is NOT a USC and therefore, not entitled to any 'rights' to residency as such.

Having a USC child doesn't automatically grant you residency/citizenship.

The fact that you don't want to feed your baby formula is not considered to be 'hardship' enough.

Sorry to sound heartless and barbaric, but that's U.S. immigration fer ya. In a nutshell.

I say this because you will be dealing with immigration for the next 3 years at the very least and it'll be best if you can remove your 'righteous indignation' right at the very start. Been there. Done that.

There's a good chance your waiver will be accepted and approved so don't worry about it too much.

Welcome to VJ.

Edited June 15, 2010 by sachinky

[Justine+David 218]

Lawyers tend to have a bad rep here...I would do a lot of research on this forum about J1 waivers before I would take the advice of a lawyer...they have a history of leading unsuspecting VJ members down many long paths that were unnecessary. Good luck!

Edited June 15, 2010 by Justine+David

[Darnell 8,478]

Hey ! Welcome to VJ !!

Sounds like high emotionally-charged issue.

Calm down a bit. There are others here who have gone through the same situation, and I feel, within some small time and use of the portal's search engine- you'll be able to find their posts and review what they've done, prior.

Hang in there !!

[Killmon 0]

Hey ! Welcome to VJ !!

Sounds like high emotionally-charged issue.

Calm down a bit. There are others here who have gone through the same situation, and I feel, within some small time and use of the portal's search engine- you'll be able to find their posts and review what they've done, prior.

Hang in there !!

I just about have everything filled out, I am just trying to figure out what is the best way to frame a hardship letter.

I am calm {It is not like i am writing in all caps}. One can calmly stand against a particular position, as well as calmly tell someone that their potion is absolutely "all bad words here". We Americans have lost the ability to deal with educated conflict, and to passionately disagree without it spreading to all issues between people -it is all hugs and kisses, or air strike. Just because I think someone is uneducated and ignorant in one area, or position, does not mean that I think they are in all areas. Hell, I am uneducated and ignorant to Visa issues {well that is slowly changing}!

As far as Sachinky's response, if you are taking that position to demonstrate the position of our government -not necessary- I am already quiet aware of its logically inconstant positions based on lunacy and ignorance. If you are in agreement with such thinking personally, it follow that that you too must base such a position on equally illogical and inconstant justifications. Such as a country that claims "family values" while placing them in positions to choose between endangering the whole, or individuals {separating a child form its mother, or father, at such a young age has been proven and documented to cause many developmental and social problems}. And, equally illogical is to claim that all men are created equal and then deny all men the same rights despite location -illogical and wrong- either take the sentence out of our documents, or honor your words. But, stop pretending to be a country that we are not. As you say "-sorry-" but, you will have to deal with highly educated, logically consistent, people for the rest of your life. I can handle stupid as long as it is not instituting social policy based on its equivalent.

Your statement that he is not a citizen is also inaccurate and a misleading justification of that position as I am an American, and my son IS a citizen -Him being born here and to me makes him one. Which means he is being forced to choose between what is best for his health and his right to live here -FACT- Further, completely un-American... or is it?

It is an emotional charged issue -Being forced to choose is not "freedom of choice", and I, as an American, should not be forced to choose the health of my child over staying in my, and my son's, country -but, I may have too, and that -is- -not- -cool-

I appreciate everyone's positive encouragement, including Sachinky's. I turly hope that all I have been told is not the case. Although, I am not reassured by question like, "Are you planing to over throught the government illegaly?" Who the hell answers "yes" to that?!

I will continue to research. I am short on time though. Her visa is up this month. We really did not discover that we had nowhere to go until last minute and it will take a few months to work out arrangements outside the country. I guess spending the $1500 to make it so she can stay here a little longer without them making her stay out for 10 years is worth it.

[sachinky 464]

Your statement that he is not a citizen is also inaccurate and a misleading justification of that position as I am an American, and my son IS a citizen -Him being born here and to me makes him one. Which means he is being forced to choose between what is best for his health and his right to live here -FACT- Further, completely un-American... or is it?

My VERY first statement of my response was "The child is a US citizen and is not 'being forced' to go anywhere." So I don't know where you got that from.

Secondly, what *I* or you think about this process is quite irrelevant. When you get involved in international relationships, you need to follow all sorts of rules, regulations, you wouldn't need to if you were dating your neighbor. As we like to say on VJ, "immigration is NOT a right, it is a privilege." So in order to secure that privilege, we have to jump through all sorts of hoops.

Again, plenty of people have managed to get the 2 year HRR waivered. I'm sure you will be no different. Search the forum, look up the guides and good luck!

Edited June 16, 2010 by sachinky

[belinda63 3,022]

It is what it is. I understand you are upset about the situation but no one forced you to have the child. File for the waiver and at worst if it is denied the child will have the experience of living in another country and learning that language as a native and some wonderful experiences to share when he is older. It all depends on how you look at it.

[Killmon 0]

It is what it is. I understand you are upset about the situation but no one forced you to have the child. File for the waiver and at worst if it is denied the child will have the experience of living in another country and learning that language as a native and some wonderful experiences to share when he is older. It all depends on how you look at it.

I wish it was that easy, we have no residence in Spain, we will land with no home, no employment, no ride, nothing.... If we leave now. We had accommodations in the ready, but a tragedy happened and that is no longer the case. I will lose a house and much more, or be forced to separate form my family who will land with nowhere to go. SO, yeah, a bit more complicated than "I get to lean a new language" which I already speak Spanish along with two others languages... I have live extensively abroad. And, am not opposed to it, in fact, I prefer it. Just as a choice not a requirement -there are many other things going on in our lives that effect the situation. Hopefully the process will buy me the time needed to set up arrangements in Berlin, or Spain.

The "no one forced you to have a child" comment as justification for clearly bad policy is insensitive and irrelevant... again, as Americans are we free to pursue life, liberty and happiness with out this type of persecution? Or, not? -not- I must worry about state persecution when decideing about who I have a child with and when? Freedom is a farce. It is one thing to say that I have to deal with it, it is another to make excuses for a clearly bad system.

So, I get it people, you all are correct in pointing out that it is what it is. And, I will have to deal with it... but, until it is "ok" to be upset about it, and people take action based on it, our country will continue to institute public policy that is damaging to itself and the world...

So, In long... of course I am upset, and to act like I should not be, and make comments like the above, is the logical equivalent of telling someone that got raped that they should not ware sexy cloths, or someone that got robed that they should not walk around outside.... nice job.

If you are an American, you should be pissed at this system, not because there is one, but because it is so flawed and our responsibility.

I do give great kodos to those who provide info on this site for such assistance, but not for pretending that it is a good system or somehow someones fault for not understand something so clearly designed to not be understood.

So, here is the response I give to someone in my situation, "yeah, It is a very messed up and unnecessarily complicated system, here is what we did". Not, "it is your fault that you will possible get screwed by a system that is designed to screw you."

The bottom line is that the minute we are married, let alone have a child in the US, -SHOULD- by all things ethical and moral rhetoric of our country, grant her citizenship -no matter what visa she was here on. Especially, in a country that claims family values and freedom at its core. The fact of the matter is that it does not, and that should concern all citizens.

Again, I appreciate all the positive encouragement, and will not respond further to this post -I need to get answers to some questions, as much as, or more, really, than I love debate.

[milimelo 4,419]

The bottom line is that the minute we are married, let alone have a child in the US, -SHOULD- by all things ethical and moral rhetoric of our country, grant her citizenship -no matter what visa she was here on. Especially, in a country that claims family values and freedom at its core. The fact of the matter is that it does not, and that should concern all citizens.

Are you kidding? NO country gives instant citizenship for marrying a foreign national. Hell, Bosnia will make you be an LPR (type of) for 5 years with YEARLY medical exams before they even consider you for citizenship - after 5 YEARS of marriage.

Consider the US law that gives the naturalization option to a foreign national married to a USC for 3+ years in 3 years only.

Just get working on your wife's J-1 waiver and file the AOS and you'll be fine. And yes, system as is set up right now IS WORKING, they had too many green card marriages (fraudulent) back in the 80's which prompted the overhaul of the system.

[Killmon 0]

Are you kidding? NO country gives instant citizenship for marrying a foreign national. Hell, Bosnia will make you be an LPR (type of) for 5 years with YEARLY medical exams before they even consider you for citizenship - after 5 YEARS of marriage.

Consider the US law that gives the naturalization option to a foreign national married to a USC for 3+ years in 3 years only.

Just get working on your wife's J-1 waiver and file the AOS and you'll be fine. And yes, system as is set up right now IS WORKING, they had too many green card marriages (fraudulent) back in the 80's which prompted the overhaul of the system.

All right, I said I would not respond, but I can help it... Are "YOU" kidding?! Your argument that based on one countries, or even all countries, standard of not granting citizenship instantly based on marriage makes it "right" that the US also does not is a ad numerum fallacy {fallacy of appealing to numbers} -logically inconstant. For example, just because 30 million voted for Hitler did not make it the "right thing" for them to do. You also appeal to another fallacy ad pupulum {that because others do it it makes it right}, that just because some countries, or even if all countries, standards are "worse" does not make the US's standards "right" -logically inconstant.

Besides the above inconsistencies with your position, You missed the word "should" in my statement. The should is based on statements made in our national documents that logically lead to the policies concerning J1 wavers to be illogical. And for those of you who forgot, crazy is the opposite of logical by definition. Please, learn to construct a valid and sound argument before you chime in.

The reason everyone is getting in a tisy about me being pissed is to fold,

1. People for, the most part, try to focuses on the solutions and avoid the moral question all together which is piratical to some degree. But to ignore the pain, stress and agony that this process brings people is not helpful, and it is definitely not "right", by any stretch of the imagination, to imply that the person is "wrong" for feeling up set -or somehow "doing it to themselves" -if you make comments like you did not have to have a kid, and other insensitive comments you are just making them suffer more -good job being an #### hole to some one already suffering. I can take it, obviously, but think of the others that read this blog and think {consciously or unconsciously} "Oh my god, it is my fault!" Because they buy what you are selling. The only responsibility held by an American is that he "may" have voted the idiots in to office that produced this monstrosity of a policy. And, that happens a while ago.

2. They really believe that the policy is a good one, and that it should not upset me. Witch, makes them logically inconsistent {crazy} as it is clear that any country using "Liberty", "Freedom", and "All men are created equal" in its national documents and rhetoric, and then takes action to the contrary is in fact, by definition, -crazy.

So, shut up with the whole, "you should have known better", "not had a kid", "what did you expect" and all that other B.S. because, I have every logical right to be emotionally pissed. My country has been setting the expectation with me my whole life that I am free, and at liberty to purse happiness, with out persecution, and now... I am being persecuted by policy -and that aint got ###### to do with Bosnia.

So please try and use valid and sound arguments before you chime in, and you might want to know what that mean prior to attempting it, as it is clear you either forgot, or did not know in the first place.

The system is not "working", may have solved one problem, but created others, my marriage is not fraudulent, and now I am suffering because of it. So, -that is not working.

You also, must have for got the 70's and 80's when the US was playing kids videos on Saturday morning about "the great American melting pot", and how anyone can come here and be "Free". And now to try and maintain this illusion of diversity they have a lottery? But possibly will not let my wife stay?! #######?! Do me a favor everyone, do not respond to this and get me going again.... I get even madder when I start to look at how dumb it all is.

When some gets on here and is pissed for justified reasons just say, yeah.. it sucks... now do this... do not try and justify clearly unjustifiable policies, or be a ####### to them -besides making the experiences worse for them, they may be a ####### back by pointing out how much of a ####### move you pulled.

[Killmon 0]

This article seems to be enlightening as to what is needed, as far as structure and criteria, for a successful Hardship letter.

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2007,0906-hake.shtm