Criminal Background & Moral Turpitude

[Scars4Rich 0]

Hi guys,

Ive done a few searches and nothing specific to my inquiry has come up, so please, knowledgeable VJ members, I am tearing my hair out here -- if anyone can help PLEASE PLEASE help me!

Our situation:

My partner Rich is a Kiwi and we've been engaged for about 8 months and dating about a year and a half. I was living with him over in Wellington, but I overstayed my visa and (wakka wakka wakka) got deported back to the USA. NOT a pleasant experience. So options for me going back to be with him are nil, as I am banned from entering the country of New Zealand for Five years as I was served with a removal order...

My partner has bipolar disorder and went off his anti-psychotics and mood stabilizers for a period of about 3 months where he just went off the rails. He lost his job, lost his friends, lost himself, and it was terrible to watch. (He's now been back on them for about 5 months and is stable and other than being apart from me and frustrated by our situation he is doing OK). Well during this time, he had a couple of distinct manic episodes. He attempted suicide twice, and also completely lost control and got very very angry with me and our arguments turned physical. Not in the sense that he hit me, pushed me, threw me around, or anything like that. No, no. Richard BIT me on the ANKLE and thigh. I want to be very specific that this is not a common theme in my or his past relationships, and I have no fear of him doing it again. I think he def. needs counseling/therapy, something he has never had before, the GP just put him on meds and I'm pretty sure that is how this situation came about in the first place

OK so specific to VJ, Partner is charged with 2 counts of "INJURING WITH INTENT TO INJURE" this is a NZ Law that I can't really find an analogue to in the USA. It makes me very very nervous that it is in the "grievous assault" category though. It is the least serious of a cluster of offenses which include things like "injuring with intent to cause Grievous Bodily Harm" (Stabbing) "wounding with intent to wound" (cutting someone with a knife) and "injuring with intent to injure" (i don't see how BITING in a manic state is that, he lost control and didn't INTEND to injure me any more than if he had gotten done for "assault with intent to injure" or "male assault female" but... ok there's nothing we can do these are the charges on paper). He got community service, and no jail time, and has to attend an anger management (in NZ stopping violence service) program. That, I think, is fair enough for what he did. But obviously, that is not what has gotten the proverbial panties in a twist... It is how the US seems to form synonyms with the words "moral turpitude" and INTENT for immigration purposes.

Wiki defines moral turpitude n. gross violation of standards of moral conduct,vileness, such that an act involving moral turpitude was intentionally evil, making the act a crime. There is also an excellent list of crimes which could be considered "of moral turpitude" On Wikipedia Here This is all very helpful except assault is one of the things that may or may not be considered a crime of MT depending on the interpretation...

For it to be a crime of moral turpitude,

* Assault with intent to kill, commit rape, commit robbery or commit serious bodily harm

* Assault with a dangerous or deadly weapon

NOT a crime of moral turpitude,

* Assault (simple) (i.e., any assault, which does not require an evil intent <there's that word AGAIN> or depraved motive, although it may involve the use of a weapon, which is neither dangerous nor deadly)

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So I am left confused, and in a pretty heightened state of perpetual panic that we will both have to leave our home countries and head somewhere overseas permanently if we want to be together. We both very much want him to come to the US.

Does anyone have any advice? And sorry if this is not the right forum. We are applying for a K1 visa, fwiw.

He has very minimal other criminal history

1x count "misuse of a telephone" (he sent nasty texts back and forth to/from his sister who pig-narced on him, deleted her texts and showed the cops his, and he got done for it) -- served no time, no community service, no fines/court fees

1x count of shoplifting under $300 worth of goods (idiot stole food and got caught a long time ago) -- served no time, no community service, no fines/court fees

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The outcome of the court's decision - community service, and court-mandated therapy seems to imply that the charge is not that serious, but I am very very concerned (of course). Can anyone help? Ive been scouring the web for a couple of days (the court finally ruled on his charges which is why I'm only doing it now, I got deported 2 wks ago) but have not found anything that would actually explain to me what our chances are for getting him over here on ANY visa. Is it something I should get a copy of his police record and specifically have him go see my friends at the US Embassy over in Wellington or the Auckland Consulate (yes they know us personally as I was ringing them hassling them to hassle the cops for visitations with my partner as I was detained and denied bail and had to serve out over 2 weeks in maximum security prison because they thought i was a 'flight risk')...

[English Muffin 59]

Moving from General Immigration forum to K1 Process and Procedures forum.

[TracyTN 237]

My sense is that this may well fall into the area of a crime of moral turpitude, and it's possible he'll be denied the visa and need a waiver (proving extreme hardship on you, the USC, if he cannot emigrate). I'd consult with an experienced immigration attorney.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Echoing Tracy here. The assault alone might be enough to trigger the need for a waiver, but you also mention shoplifting, which does fall under the category of a crime of moral turpitude. As Tracy says, you really need to speak to a qualified immigration attorney about this.

Also, as someone whose partner is also bipolar, I send you the message of hope. As I'm sure you know, the medication DOES help. Best of luck.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

What is the maximum penalty for the crimes he was charged with? If it's 1 year or less then it won't be relevant, even if it's determined to be a crime of moral turpitude. If it's more than 1 year then you'll probably end up needing a waiver.

His mental disorder that caused him to attempt suicide twice falls under INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iii). Yeah, I know, attempted suicide is specifically listed as NOT a crime of moral turpitude in the Wikipedia article. It's not the act of attempted suicide that is an inadmissibility, but having a mental disorder and associated behavior that may pose or has posed a danger to the intending immigrant or to others. I've read a few other cases where people had been denied because of a history of attempted suicide, and one where someone was denied because they had "cutting" scars on their arm. I never found out the outcome of those cases, but I think it begins with a complete psych evaluation.

You definitely need a consultation with a good immigration lawyer.

[Old Dominion 26]

one is tempted to ask, "why in the world would the U.S.A. want another one of these within its borders??" All of the circumstances, no matter what the medical cause, suggest the instability and criminal instincts are pretty deep-rooted.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

one is tempted to ask, "why in the world would the U.S.A. want another one of these within its borders??" All of the circumstances, no matter what the medical cause, suggest the instability and criminal instincts are pretty deep-rooted.

I'm sorry, as the SO of an immigrant with bipolar disorder (but no criminal history), I find that offensive and ignorant. Bipolar disorder can be managed quite successfully with therapy and medication. It is a tough row to hoe for both the patient and his or her partner. The sufferer in the midst of a manic episode can do things that he or she would never dream of doing when stable. Believe me, I've been there. The key is to keep them stable and that means a proper support network and medication. Almost all can live normal and highly productive lives, and bipolar disorder is NOT one of the mental health conditions that can exclude a would-be immigrant.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I'm sorry, as the SO of an immigrant with bipolar disorder (but no criminal history), I find that offensive and ignorant. Bipolar disorder can be managed quite successfully with therapy and medication. It is a tough row to hoe for both the patient and his or her partner. The sufferer in the midst of a manic episode can do things that he or she would never dream of doing when stable. Believe me, I've been there. The key is to keep them stable and that means a proper support network and medication. Almost all can live normal and highly productive lives, and bipolar disorder is NOT one of the mental health conditions that can exclude a would-be immigrant.

I agree with your summation entirely. A manic or depressive episode in a person suffering from bipolar disorder says nothing about the moral character of the person. The brain goes on a holiday without the consent of the conscious mind. There is a physical cause that affects the brain chemistry. When the physical cause is controlled, then the behavior is controlled as well.

Whether bipolar disorder would make an immigrant inadmissible depends on whether it fits the description given in INA 212(a)(1)(A)(iii). If the behavior associated with the mental illness has posed or may pose a danger to the immigrant, then it's an inadmissibility. The OP's fiance has attempted suicide twice. Unless it could be shown that his bipolar disorder had nothing to do with this behavior, I think it would make him inadmissible.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

Totally agree Jim. I missed the bit about the suicide attempts though. I've handled a fair few threats but never an attempt.

Again, my sympathies to the OP.

[justashooter 430]

"pig narced"? is this a way of saying that his sister reported him to police for drug use? if so, you have a bigger problem.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Could you both possibly move to Australia?

[twowls 217]

Could you both possibly move to Australia?

You mean shooter and dominion, right?

OP, sorry about your situation. People here have recommended Marc Ellis as a good attorney, and Jim's knowledge and advice are pretty much always solid. Ellis' name on here is ellis-island if you want to send him a message. He may have a referral for someone in your area.

[Scars4Rich 0]

"pig narced"? is this a way of saying that his sister reported him to police for drug use? if so, you have a bigger problem.

where in the world did you get that he was on drugs or that this had anything to do with drugs? im curious

[Scars4Rich 0]

Thanks for the advice. The suicide attempts are not documented with the police, and aren't on any kind of file so that should not be an issue, I hope...

The maximum sentence for injuring with intent is ten years looks like i need to go into very big debt and get a very good attorney. *headdesk*

And yes, we could both move to Australia in theory, but you know, he *is* kiwi which makes him morally opposed to the idea on principle but if there is no other way for us to be together an abandon both our families and go to Aussie, I'll do it to be with him.

Thanks to everyone who's offering support.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

You mean shooter and dominion, right?

OP, sorry about your situation. People here have recommended Marc Ellis as a good attorney, and Jim's knowledge and advice are pretty much always solid. Ellis' name on here is ellis-island if you want to send him a message. He may have a referral for someone in your area.

Another reason for me to love you even more, Owl.

OP: very sound advice. Talk honestly and openly with your lawyer about all the issues you face on both sides of the immigration game. Remember that immigration law is federal so you can hire someone from anywhere in the US to help you, but you may choose to go fairly local if you prefer some face-to-face time. Check references. This board is littered with lawyer horror stories so you'll need to do some legwork. Contrary to popular opinion, not all lawyers are evil, grasping SOBs.

(so sayeth the lawyer)